sensations...what sensations

[Vivek]

I would only suggest that the decision is up to Martin: whether to continue with the Tradition of Goenkaji or not. Losing awareness of sensations during meditative practice is quite normal and almost all practitioners go through it one time or the other. The important thing is not to get upset (remain equanimous) because of it and switch to Anapana (again as taught by Goenkaji), for as long as required, and when one is again able to feel a myriad of sensations below the nostrils, one may switch gently back to Vipassana. This switching back and forth b/w Anapana and Vipassana as and when required, is a delicate work, and is a skill in itself; something even very experienced practitioners in Goenkaji's tradition take care to develop. I agree with Stefan, taking another 10-day should help with your problem, Martin. But, you need to make sure that you raise these concerns with the conducting teacher, so that you get timely and pragmatic advise to clear them up. Also, I find that sometimes, when my mind is too agitated, it has helped to first do Shamatha to calm down. I don't think all these variations are mutually exclusive in any way. They all help the practitioner at times.

[martinovasolino]

thankyou to all of the replies. i will take on board the advice that has been offered. many thanks .martin

[torgeir]

on the course mr goenka states that if you can't feel a sensation on a small area then try a larger area. he goes on to imply that if a sensation can't be felt then its due to having a dull brain! maybe i have to except i have a dull brain.

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Goenka's suggestion that someone has a dull brain is pretty dull-brained excuse and blaming the practitioner for failings in the technique, one of his favourite tricks it seems.

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I admit that my brain tends to get dull at times during meditation. that's not a personal offence from Goenka! that's a fact!

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Everyone has a dull brain, that's why we meditate.  The more subtle a brain becomes the more we can see things as they really are.

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Just a comment on dull brains vs. the mind:

On the course Mr Goenka never implies that meditators have dull brains, or that anyone is personally dull. On the other hand, and contrary to popular opinion, he asserts that the mind is not limited to the brain, but rather the mind is spread out in every cell of the body. To be able to fully experience the mind you must get out of your brain and into your body, which can only happen by experiencing the sensations of the body. Mind, which is actually located throughout the body, can be divided into the four parts of consciousness, perception, sensation and reactions. Matter, which constitutes the building material of the body, can be broken down into sub atomic particles, which have the four characteristics of weight, moisture, temperature and motion, and can be clearly felt in the sensations. It is relatively easy to divide the mind clearly into these four parts, and the matter into those four characteristics, using the Burmese traditional sensation based Vipassana technique propagated by Mr Goenka. Sensation is an easy access point to mind and matter. From there it is easy to understand clearly what the Buddha was talking about.

It is difficult not to write sermons, I can totally relate...hahahah! On the other hand one could make a solid case for deleting all comments made on this forum because they can seem like preaching
Oh well. It is what it is, friends. Nothing more, nothing less.

[kidnovice]

That was an awesome perspective, Torgeir! Thank you for the sermon. 

[Morning Dew]

Oh well. It is what it is, friends. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are very wise my friend  tell me one thing though; Two Buddhas meet on the road. What do two Buddhas talk about?

Force be with you Master Yoda 

[torgeir]

"Proud I am, to stand by Wookiees in their hour of need."
―Yoda

[Morning Dew]

You are beaten. It is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did.


 

[torgeir]

You are beaten. It is useless to resist. Don't let yourself be destroyed as Obi-Wan did.

"When you look at the dark side, careful you must be ... for the dark side looks back."
―Yoda

hahaha    There are some amusing books written about the dharma of Star Wars. There are remarkably many references in the films to buddhist wisdom and south-east Asian culture. Coincidental? Was George Lucas buddy with Alan Watts? How come the similar zen references? Is it a really clever story or just wishful thinking by Star Wars fans who also happen to be meditators?
Perhaps the wisdom of the Force warrants its own thread.
Or perhaps we should just leave it at that.

[kidnovice]

There is NO way its a coincidence!  After all, George Lucas has openly talked about being influenced by Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress, so we know he was looking to the east. By the way, if you're a Star Wars fans (or not) its worth watching "The Hidden Fortress." You can really see the elements that Lucas borrowed. Its especially cool when you see how even C-3PO and R-2D2 correlate to characters in the Kurosawa's film. 

[Andrew]

Now , THIS is what I'm talkin' about!!!

OK, torgier, you have the mandate, go ahead and start the thread; "The Dhamma of Venerable Ajahn George Lucus".

You know, I was thinking last night that if we have longer more involved 'sermons' we want to share at anytime, we could always type it up and post it as a pdf. That way we can enjoy each others wisdom at our leisure.

I have to pull you up on some of your physics though torgeir,   'sub atomic' refers to electrons, neutrons, protons etc (they seem to be finding more everyday). These things can't be described as having anything other than a theoretical electrical charge.

sub atomic particles... which have the four characteristics of weight, moisture, temperature and motion, and can be clearly felt in the sensations.

I think there is a state of awareness one may 'perceive' particles, but we are talking at the edge of their being one, and there being ONE. If you get my drift. Ajahn Brahm makes an interesting reference to the citta (mind) being 'grains with space in between' in the last of the jhana states. I don't doubt he has been there, geez, with the amount of sitting these monks do, I'm surprised they don't glow!

I would enjoy hearing views on Lucus's films and films in general for that matter; I tend to think parables are powerful tools for remembering key things.

I also think we may have thoroughly derailed this thread now.      

love

andy

[Stefan]

On the course Mr Goenka never implies that meditators have dull brains, or that anyone is personally dull.

Brains are dulling sometimes, I don't need Goenkaji to state that.
We know that words like "dull" have more than one meaning and are easily understood in an offensive or wrong way.
Sometimes, when I start meditation with Anapana, I become immensely aware of my "background brain activity" .... it's like watching 20 TV-shows while listening to 100 radios. I call that dull.

This is my approach:

... the mind is not limited to the brain, but rather the mind is spread out in every cell of the body

... and beyond. But the dull brain refuses to be aware of it.

[Stefan]

Hei Che, I like your recent status!  
Be patient, Anakin.

Two Buddhas meet on the road. What do two Buddhas talk about?

They lead smalltalk, because there is nothing important left to say!

[Stefan]

You know, I was thinking last night that if we have longer more involved 'sermons' we want to share at anytime, we could always type it up and post it as a pdf.

That's a very good idea! It would cut some threads to a reasonable length and make them more coherent to read (while still providing the opportunity to drown in words when desired or needed). I admit that I'm easily scared off a thread at the sight of posts that need a lot of scrolling.

I'd suggest that every sermon writer posts the pdf, but should also try to say it in some normal-length-sentences, so we don't have conversations like ...

"Read my reply.pdf"

"answer.pdf"

"the_sutthas_books_1-3.pdf"

"reply.pdf & Metta!"

[Morning Dew]

when I start meditation with Anapana, I become immensely aware of my "background brain activity" .... it's like watching 20 TV-shows while listening to 100 radios. I call that dull.

I call that A VERY AWAKE and AWARE mind, a mind that sees things as they are, far from dull. Dull mind is just an idea I would say nothing to do with the actual self which is of great importance (the mind as it is at this time in our life without willing to silence it focus it or fabricate in any other manner)

OK! Lets explore this more carefully than. Lets try and answer what DULL MIND IS NOT?

Che

[Stefan]

when I start meditation with Anapana, I become immensely aware of my "background brain activity" .... it's like watching 20 TV-shows while listening to 100 radios. I call that dull.

I call that A VERY AWAKE and AWARE mind, a mind that sees things as they are, far from dull. Dull mind is just an idea I would say nothing to do with the actual self which is of great importance (the mind as it is at this time in our life without willing to silence it focus it or fabricate in any other manner)

I think we need to be careful with the words (again). I called the brain activity dull, not the mind. That is to say, what you call "mind". There are many people who commonly call the brain activity "mind" (which it isn't, actually, as you pointed out) ... that's where the idea of a "dull mind" comes from.

Yes, being aware of brain background activity is a certain progress (that's the primary thing I gained from Anapana) ... thanx for calling my mind very awake and aware, then ... my ego likes that!