Author Topic: First session - all about the pain  (Read 17316 times)

Stefan

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2011, 12:01:54 PM »

as has been said in other threads before ...
Mantra meditations and Vipassana meditations don't exactly fit together ...
anicca

jernej

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2011, 03:10:46 PM »
I recently went on an "information diet". No internet (other than really necessary for work), no news or anything.

It's amazing how that uncovers the void, the emptiness inside that we are constantly filling with trash - just to run away from it.
But filling this void is the essence of life. And the most scary thing - I never learned how to fill it with what I really want.
So right now I literary feel the pain as the void is growing, as it doesn't get it's usual "fix". I cheat a bit, I still watch some TV shows, otherwise it would be unbearable.
But I know this is the key. I need to learn and explore.

Unrelated to that, recently my wife has started meditating. I never thought she was the kind of person who would have liked that  ??? . I gave her some general pointers, but I try not to interfere and let her find her own way. That's what's it's all about, isn't it.

Maysun

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2011, 08:06:23 AM »
I also find it interesting how we judge certain sounds. I find it most distracting when the sound has no rythym though. Its not that loud but we have had construction over the road in the past weeks hammering concrete pylons in the ground but I could still sit because it had a certain beat to it.


That is funny because I´ve tried binaural beats to help with meditation and that actually has no ryhthym whatsoever. It is like a highway with a bit of rainfall and a one tone through it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 04:26:25 PM by Maysun »

jernej

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #53 on: April 15, 2012, 01:10:49 PM »
It's incredible how undeveloped the human brain is at this point of evolution.

On one hand, we have this marvel of the universe, the thinking brain and mind, the creativity and awareness.

On the other hand, a part of our brain is what they call in simple language "the lizard brain". This brain is quite primitive, all it cares about is being comfy (e.g., not be hungry, have sex etc.).

Yet I find it that most of time we are not using the amazing brain, but let the lizard autopilot engage and take us wherever it wants. The tricky part is understanding how it makes us do what it wants to.

Of course, this gives us a great opportunity to observe ourselves.

To me, an incredible discovery was observing how I'm not really angry with my daughter (she way crying and not behaving at the time). My anger was caused by a physical pain I felt in my stomach and my chest. And it feels like it will go away if I remove the cause - the misbehaving daughter. That is of course where usually people begin to fight and overpower the other party.

The other thing I see is how unmotivated we really are (or at least I am). Our brain is still wired for "fight or flight" instinct. If there is no immediate danger and we are kind of ok, we are lazy and bored. And out of this boredom we do stupid things, like go into an argument on facebook. Right now I'm fool of adrenaline and really motivated to prove the other person how wrong she is. Even though I don't even know her and it will really not change anything. But the discomfort that I feel really gets me up and into action.

Finding the same motivation for pleasant and positive things is way harder. I've never learned it as a child and I just don't know how to do it. I need to learn from my child, who seems to have no problem finding amusement and fun in the simplest things.

Matthew

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2012, 09:59:40 AM »
It's incredible how undeveloped the human brain is at this point of evolution.
....

I find the opposite: the human brain is amazingly well developed. Our use of it less so. And far from this being unbelievable I see it as a quite necessary outcome that we do not use our brains for the existing social/economic status quo to perpetuate: the last thing that would help the status quo is the amount of entropy that would be introduced to the existing structure by people who could think clearly and see clearly.
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jernej

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2012, 11:22:13 AM »
I find the opposite: the human brain is amazingly well developed. Our use of it less so.

Indeed, that is a better wording. It occurred to me that the human brain is at the evolutionary stage where we are torn between our instincts and our, to simplify a bit, mindfulness. To many of us this duality is challenging and it indeed reflects in the human society.

I see it as a quite necessary outcome that we do not use our brains for the existing social/economic status quo to perpetuate: the last thing that would help the status quo is the amount of entropy that would be introduced to the existing structure by people who could think clearly and see clearly.
That is an interesting proposition. But isn't the danger for those who appeal to our instincts and provoke fear and anger even greater?

Vivek

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2012, 12:07:23 PM »
I believe that at times, we need some individuals who can question the Status Quo from time to time (Buddha could be counted as one prominent amoung them). Also, to me, Status Quo is mostly an illusion, there is change always occuring (either evolution or devolution), we just fail to notice it.
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Matthew

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2012, 03:21:10 PM »
..
I see it as a quite necessary outcome that we do not use our brains for the existing social/economic status quo to perpetuate: the last thing that would help the status quo is the amount of entropy that would be introduced to the existing structure by people who could think clearly and see clearly.
That is an interesting proposition. But isn't the danger for those who appeal to our instincts and provoke fear and anger even greater?

Indeed - they gain the most from the SQ and have the most to lose.

Edit: If you look at Universal education and it's roots you quickly work out it:

a) Is a product of the industrial revolution
b) It is modelled on the schemas of that revolution
c) It is designed to mass produce "cogs" for the machine of "society"
d) It does not work well in bringing the most out of individual humans
e) It is not designed to help you experience reality as it is - it is actually a form of programming
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 03:24:37 PM by Matthew »
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jernej

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2012, 10:32:46 PM »
So true!

Until the late 19th century, all the industry needed were muscles. Later on, the industry needed more and more knowledge workers, like engineers, accountants... and so on. And due to the shortage of supply, they were expensive.

Today, when nearly everybody has some kind of university degree, the supply is actually exceeding demand. Hence, lots of unemployed, highly educated people.

And, as you say, the school really is teaching you how you should perceive reality. Think with your own head, be creative out of the box, and you are at least labeled, if not more.

Results are cheap, replaceable, cheated, in debt cogs.

Andrew

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2012, 08:22:49 AM »
the last thing that would help the status quo is the amount of entropy that would be introduced to the existing structure by people who could think clearly and see clearly.

that has to be the key. Exploiting the masses 'root poisons' is alot harder if they are not there any more. eventually the greedy psychopathic element will be reduce to petty crime and extinction, rather than inventing things like 'the stock market' that produce nothing but a ruse to scam the 'not so greedy but still greedy' masses..
getting it done

jernej

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2012, 02:21:58 PM »
Lately I'm noticing how I visualize something (spontaneously), and then proceed doing it. It might be various things, like eating, sit tiredly on a couch, or even post on this forum.

My interpretation is that this is the way the subconscious is piloting me to do whatever it wants. I'm starting to feel like being hijacked. Resisting the urge to do whatever my visualization is telling me I'm going to do is very hard, many times impossible.

Anybody else experiencing something similar?

Quardamon

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« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2012, 10:13:28 AM »
The last time that I did a retreat (four years ago - :( ) there were moments that I would give a naming to a feeling or a thought that I did not yet have. If I allowed the feeling to come up, indeed it would be as I had named it.
The teacher (Frits Koster) agreed, that is was not a proper procedure to name fear (for instance) if the fear was not yet there. So he encouraged me to name it as "naming" what I was doing.

To my experience, there are times that there is an interplay between reality and us - Reality is not always hard and fast and first-there.  We cannot always explore it, and find out how it works, without being part of it. I mean: Sometimes we are part of it.
(If one looks at a person with a kind and gentle interest, that person will usually become more kind, for that moment. At very rare moments, I have the feeling that that goes also for reality at large. Also the trees, the clouds, the rain can talk back. You are allowed to call this a religious conviction.)

To name this as hijacking is using a negative tone in the naming. My first teacher warned sternly about using negative (or positive) terms to name what is going on. Stay neutral.
It can happen, that one knows things (or sees things) like laying on a couch before they happen. (It is like "déja vue".)

I never had that experience (of four years ago) again. To me it felt then more like the future was not in sinc with the present, like it usually is. We are used to having the present first. Compare one wave in the water overtaking an other wave.

Life, and the subconscious, are far greater that we can fathom.
If your over-all situation is OK, than trust the process. If your over-all situation needs to be bettered, then do that. and after that, trust the process.

(Pfff   I have this secure tone of someone who has seen this with dozens of people. I have not.)

OK. That is it. Back to the cushion.

Matthew

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    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2012, 11:55:52 AM »
Lately I'm noticing how I visualize something (spontaneously), and then proceed doing it. It might be various things, like eating, sit tiredly on a couch, or even post on this forum.

My interpretation is that this is the way the subconscious is piloting me to do whatever it wants. I'm starting to feel like being hijacked. Resisting the urge to do whatever my visualization is telling me I'm going to do is very hard, many times impossible.

Anybody else experiencing something similar?

This is a powerful moment in your practice. You have noticed how the subconscious processes rise up and take over, presenting to the conscious mind an idea or action as fully formed and "owned" (clung to) by the conscious mind. Keep on trucking.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

michael4422

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Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #63 on: April 18, 2012, 11:16:01 PM »
Pain's no fun, but I found out on the last day of retreat (10 day) how useful it can be. Just sitting there looking at the pain objectively, not trying to get away from it, or change it. Challenging.

Severe, injurious pain is another story all together.