Author Topic: First session - all about the pain  (Read 17334 times)

Mungo

  • Member
    • Shamatha
    • Smiling Politely
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2011, 06:05:47 AM »
I also find it interesting how we judge certain sounds. I find it most distracting when the sound has no rythym though. Its not that loud but we have had construction over the road in the past weeks hammering concrete pylons in the ground but I could still sit because it had a certain beat to it.
I had a hard time when I first started with being "shocked" by random sudden sounds but is not so noticeable nowadays. I have also noticed in the past couple of months that the sounds I do hear whilst sitting seem to be heard now in the middle of my head rather than "out there". A group of galahs flew by the other morning and it actually sounded like they were inside my head flying from my forehead to the back and fading off.

I read something a while back of some teacher in thailand (I think) that if the student was energetic and chatty he would send them to meditate in the forest or cave etc and if they were quiet and reserved they copped the middle of the busy town.
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2011, 06:29:48 AM »
Quote
I read something a while back of some teacher in thailand (I think) that if the student was energetic and chatty he would send them to meditate in the forest or cave etc and if they were quiet and reserved they copped the middle of the busy town.

Ha ha :) so it is not the sound that is iritating but how we relate to it. The irritation is totaly our fabrication.

If one gets irritated by the sound ones mindfulness is totaly gone. Go back to establishing mindfulness by going back to the awareness of the whole body breathing.

May we all be content

Mungo

  • Member
    • Shamatha
    • Smiling Politely
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2011, 07:41:00 AM »
^^ Exactly - the world does not come At us, it comes FROM us. Responsibility (read as response-ability).
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2011, 08:53:29 AM »
jernej,

Morning is great. Get up a little early and ask your wife to be aware that you will be meditating.

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2011, 08:14:35 AM »
It is interesting how we are trapped in patterns and way of living that some people call "quality", yet keeps us living in a dream, walking around as mindless zombies.

I've noticed a long time ago I as TV slave. So I got rid of TV years ago. But of course, patterns stayed. And I just changed TV for browsing the internet, downloading TV shows... and mindless consuming all this information.

A few months ago it struck me as I was watching a show, that I was in fact bored. Yet I kept watching. Even late at night. Why? I perceived it as being "my time" or "time to relax". How sad. I was neither doing anything for myself, nor was I relaxed. I was tired and just kept watching. And browsing at the same time.

Around a month ago I took a vacation and simply disconnected. I did bring my kindle to read some good books. And I noticed how much more relaxed I was not being bombarded by useless information. And also, for some reason, I can notice I'm tired while reading and simply go to bed - while the internet enslaves me beyond imagination.

So for a bit less than a month I've simply stopped reading newspapers (paper or internet editions). I don't even listen to the radio in a car. It's amazing how world changes once you stop reading all the negative news (media is basically only serving as very negative stuff, stuff that will piss people off, stuff that people will discuss).

And only after doing that, the opportunity to enjoy mornings emerged. And suddenly I have time for myself, to experience what truly matters.

And practicing this, it amazes me how mindless I still spend many moments of a day. And how quickly I return to old patterns. I have a rare opportunity to change - and bad habits and patterns keep pulling me back as a magnet. But resistance is not the right way, as it just enforces their pull. Awareness, returning to the breath and patience are my only allies.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2011, 09:12:54 AM »
Thanks for the honest post jernej, you are not alone in seeing this pattern in yourself (I don't mean I can see it in you as well! you know what I mean..)

If there is one thing that you can count on is change, especially changing ones mind! I'm only just starting to realise that there is no changing me, because that me is already changing moment to moment. It is like trying to pin down the wind with a nail.

You are 100% right though; Awareness (Mindfullness) is everything that is needed. When you are aware, you will not even realise that you haven't turned on the radio for 2 days! Then you will realise, be very pleased with yourself, think 'finally i have changed!' the next day you will listen to the radio and feel guilty, because you let yourself down!. It is a merry go round! A false religious pattern. If you want to 'change' something that will actually build real momentum, take every opportunity to be generous with your time, friendship, money, love. becoming proud of those things will not undo the good seed that is planted, being proud of personal goals like 'I didn't bite my toenails while eating pizza and surfing the net even once today' will be nothing more than another waste of time like the very thing being avoided.  For the record, toenails don't go well with pepperoni :D*

Sitting is for building stronger Mindfullness. I forget this all the time, with 'wow, that really went somewhere, I think I've got it now!'

Much joy and loving friendliness to you

Andrew

 *(Buddha said we shouldn't lie, even in jest. So in truth, I haven't actually eaten toenails with pizza of any type, much less while surfing the net... that I can remember - there are some blank patches in my mind :D)
getting it done

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2011, 04:35:31 PM »

I was loosing my concentration all the time. My mind is wandering around like mad. I was trying to observe the pain, but what I observed the most is how quickly I'm prepared to quit if I hit on a problem  :-\ So yeah, I decided it was better to move a bit, and I tried to pay attention to that. So at the end I did finish my session as I planned.

But I would have never guessed how hard it is simply to concentrate at the breathing.

Welcome to the Club!   :)
anicca

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2011, 08:03:30 PM »
When I sit in the morning and birds are welcoming the day, while my wife and daughter still sleep... and I breathe... This moment, abide! you are so beautiful!

Who am I, what is my way? Who is this I, that is questioning this? We are all stardust.I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together...

 ;D

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2011, 01:38:57 AM »
Perhaps a Mod wouldn't mind creating a new thread with this Shed topic? I'm aware that this thread is jernej's defacto journal.

Love

Andrew

getting it done

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2011, 07:59:33 AM »
Done Andrew thank you.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2011, 08:56:08 PM »
I appreciate that Matthew, thanks.

I'm getting "addicted" to morning sitting. The day is not in the right tone if I miss it.
It's incredible how things can change once you see yourself as a humble part in the bigger picture.

Amazing, how things change, when you disconnect the media and listen to the singing birds in the morning. Any you know there is "a crisis" out there, but whatever happens those birds will still be there, as well as your wife, child, your family. We don't know how the boat is going to flow but respecting and enjoying this moment is so much better than empty worrying about the future you can't change anyway.

It's also interesting how it's basically impossible to fight when you don't put "I" into the equation. Simply not engaging the you vs me debate is incredibly powerful, because - what is your "opponent" supposed to fight? They will calm down much sooner if they are not engaged. Listened to, respected, yes - but not contradicted by "I".

Also, changing from regular to decaf seem to be a good idea. Makes mind more present in this moment.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2011, 11:57:06 PM »
It's also interesting how it's basically impossible to fight when you don't put "I" into the equation.

Makes mind more present in this moment.

It is so subtly powerful! I I have found the same thing, so much 'argument' is just a preoccupation with whatever confused 'I' thoughts happen to be in charge at that time! :)

You have encouraged me this morning!
 
Andrew

getting it done

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2011, 06:17:26 PM »
Hm.. indeed, there is suffering.

It's feeding on my envy, fears and fixed idea where I should be compared to where I am.
There is also suffering in comparing self to others, especially based on what they have rather than who they are.

I feel helpless and have bad self-esteem because I believe (based on what?) that I could do more than I do. That I could and should provide better material things to my family. Out of this a lot of fears and envy come.

And when fear and anger get too powerful, the mind is overwhelmed and goes to depression (where everything is pointless, nothing is worth doing or pursuing), I believe just to protect itself from further "failures".

The ugly thing is that this suffering is preventing me from enjoying the beauty of the moment, as body and mind are cramped.

So yes, there is suffering. I see it, I understand it, yet I'm not skillful enough to put it behind.

Crystal Palace

  • Member
  • "Move on Bhikkus, Move On" - Buddha
    • Thai Forest Tradition
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2011, 06:31:24 PM »

So yes, there is suffering. I see it, I understand it, yet I'm not skillful enough to put it behind.


Hey jernej,

To be able to 'skillfully put suffering behind' is a lifetime's work. Everyone on the forum is trying to get there.

Keep walking, keep moving on, there WILL be light at the end of the tunnel. You are bound to be successful my friend!  :)

CP
"Abstain from unwholesome actions,
Perform wholesome actions,
Purify your mind"

Buddha

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2011, 06:43:45 PM »
You are doing great my friend, i can see that in your writing. You can SEE the suffering, aware of it. Now just keep mindful of it throughout the day not falling for depression but rather go back to calming the body and keep knowing your beautiful breath. Beautiful breath is your true vehicle to freedom. Contemplation is bound to the current state of the minds perception take it with a grain of salt ;)

May no harm come to you may no harm come to your family. May you all be happy and free from suffering. Rome wasnt build in a day, and each and every drop of water which is in the Ocean counts. Every minute you spend in mindfulness builds the momentum in the whole of universe. You are the one brick i am the other, crystal palace is the third, Matthew the forth, Andy the fifth, Sacha the sixth etc etc etc ... We are not building Rome but the house of Insight.

Keep at it you are doing great my friend :)

Stefan

  • The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!
  • Member
  • love is the key
    • Vipassana (Goenka), Freestyle, Family, God
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2011, 08:33:59 AM »

So yes, there is suffering. I see it, I understand it, yet I'm not skillful enough to put it behind.

There's no need for that (now) ... it is enough to be aware of the suffering while keeping up your equanimity.
"Put it behind" sounds like an active deed ... and when you try to perform it, the suffering will increase.
What  you call "put it behind" is actually a passive happening ("letting go"). It happens when we do NOT try to do anything (like "put it behind") ... just accept the suffering as an impermanent experience ... anicca, anicca ... the suffering will ceise when the time is ripe, you may bet on it.

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2011, 09:11:54 AM »
Hm.. indeed, there is suffering.

It's feeding on my envy, fears and fixed idea where I should be compared to where I am.



hi mate.

When you sit, what do you feel? Where do you feel it? How much does it hurt (scale it, 1=paper cut, 10 =bashing fingernail with hammer) What does it feel like in descriptive concrete words (Prickly, sticky, solid, buzzing, hot, cold) not abstract ones (envy, fear, frustration , anger, esteem)?

Describe the sensation, not the thought. Let the energy buzz in the middle of your chest when you look at it, watch your guts shift and adjust with nervous discomfort. Try and describe them to yourself. (What I'm suggesting is Noting, al la Andy style)

This worked for me to get past this first wave of these negative feelings. Though I imagine other sets are coming!

love

Andrew
getting it done

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2011, 01:19:46 PM »
Ah, the title of this thread should have been changed, don't worry, I'm not in any physical pain any more :-)

But yes, with sitting I do feel my anger, my fears etc. I'm starting to really distinguishing among them, and where I feel them seem to relate to chakras (I don't know anything about chakras, just remember them from pictures and the position seem to oddly correlate with where I feel emotions).

Sitting has been changing me I think, specially in the way I react to emotions or rather, how I don't react on them. I think in general I'm much more peaceful.

The challenge in front of me is to accept myself as I am I suppose. I tend to see myself as a failure in a lot of areas and I don't seem to knowledge my success and really all the love and happiness around me. I'm not yet sure how this correlates to  meditation. I mean, it does; the self want's to look powerful and shiny and is unhappy. Now this self seems to be prevelant, but there should be room for other self(s), who experience all the love and beauty and happiness.

In short, I'm a spoiled child who didn't learn to be happy  :P

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2011, 09:50:29 PM »
My legs would hate me if I did this to them: http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/images/zazen/fulllotusfront.jpg

If I try to pull my right foot on the left thigh, my knee is some 30cm away from the floor. Is there any point in pursuing Lotus or should I just stick with Seiza?

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2011, 12:07:58 AM »
hi jernej,

I wasn't really refering to that sort of pain as such, but feelings of anger and frustration. Breaking these down by not calling them by their abstract name, but rather the concrete descriptions 'hot, prickly, buzzing, tightness, etc. I found it useful to do this as emotions are a mix of thoughts and physical feelings. By directing your mind to investigate the sensation, you short circuit the ususal path of sensation> reaction> interpretation>abstract label, and apply mindfulness to the initial sensation; sensation<mindfulness. Mindfulness will calm it down through 'mere' observation. That is the calming action.

A
getting it done

jeepneyko

  • Guest
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2011, 07:03:43 PM »
from a day before day zero up to a day or two after the course, there's always pain, either on a knee, or lower lumbar area (is it called pelvis?), or on a sole of a foot. yet sitting still on one cushion. others would request two or more, or lean on the wall (an old student at that after so many courses  :D )

so i guess my one companion is not darkness, but pain.

sometimes intense, sometimes as if far away and yet can still feel the bite. and when the time is up, the pain will come back rushing in like a tsunami.

but then again.. start again.. start again.. hehehe

jernej

  • Member
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2011, 10:28:38 AM »
Just wanted to say Hi to everyone :-)

I spent some quite unskillful months, but now I'm returning to my meditation. Persisting is not as easy as I thought.
Returning to old habits is so attractive and easy.

Anyway, I started visiting a Tai Chi / Qigong and I quite enjoy it. It's a good treat for body as well as mind.
I still do sitting meditation though, as it offers something that movement doesn't.

Be well.

Morning Dew

  • Guest
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2011, 10:38:32 AM »
Good to have you back mate.

Yes Qigong is a very grounding and calming excercise which i practice at this time. It is benefit me tremendously.

Andrew

  • Member
    • friends tell me things, sometimes I listen.
    • Letting Go.
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2011, 02:27:48 AM »
I was wondering the other day where you had gone too. Good to hear from you, all the best with your practice.
A
getting it done

Vincent L

  • Guest
Re: First session - all about the pain
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2011, 05:46:23 AM »
Hi Guys,

Just been reading this thread.

I want to share some experience of how I find myself able to focus for a certain number of minutes about 20 mins or more while in meditation.

While it is true that our minds are not still (jumping monkey) as they say, fixing the mind to stillness I use a mantra chant( The are 2 mantras one is approx 6 mins while the other is 8mins, I make it loops for 3 cycles) I use a headphone. I will say not sure what the mantra's meanings cuz its in sanskrit but it works very well for beginners like me. I was able to focus on stillness to the point of understanding the Ego that appears that cause suffering.

I believe there are sitting techniques but I don't think it should be the focus right now, the most crucial stage is on just sitting through the meditation session and achieve a deeper stage(of enlightenment and understanding).

As the efforts you do will be cumulative it will be much easier to find the flow through continuous practice.

BTW you could find those mantra I believe was posted in Youtube by some Thai person. It says morning and evening meditation if I am not mistaken. :)