Author Topic: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?  (Read 53511 times)

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2011, 07:36:15 PM »

Don't try too hard to change anything, change will come naturally.


*sign:)
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2011, 07:40:12 PM »
Quote
There is no such thing as self.

There is no self yet the self created all the world outside and inside. The whole world suffers in their own fashoon yet we say there is no self. Cool! Who then creates all this suffering if there is no self?


There is a self.
There is no self.
There is.

It's this duality stuff again.  :)
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2011, 07:41:54 PM »

... repeating ... may I be ... a pop corn ...


 ;D DON'T try this at home!!
anicca

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2011, 08:23:45 PM »
Quote
There is a self.
There is no self.
There is.

It's this duality stuff again. 

It is maybe "this duality stuff again" in your concious mind but for the very first time in my concious mind and in the minds of other beginner meditators.
Did you forget when you first became aware of the self and its fabrications? What a shock it was for me at first.
There is the self even if just a false sense of the self but it is very real and i can now see it in the every day lives, in myself, my wife, my colegues, boss, customers, news, advertising, politics, etc...
It is very much there.

Can there be any discusion about non-duality without creating duality? Probably but to do so we must aproach each other at the very same level, but even then there might be duality.
I mean what do 2 Buddhas have to discuss about  ;D LOL
Those who justify themselves do not convince.
The road to non-duality cant be find i feel by excluding the very duality we suffer from. Being aware at all times of this very duality is all i can do for sure. Non duality is just another cloud in the sky.
I doubt a non dual mind would say "i am non-dual" because this very sentence creates duality and conflict.

Discussing about something we never experienced is delusional no matter how sofistcated we put it. All we know for sure is happening right now as we speak. The rest is just dust in the eyes.

Tell me to back off if im stepping on your toe too hard :D
I like you though.
Friendly Che :)

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2011, 06:27:34 AM »

Don't worry about toes  ;)

Please be a bit more careful with interpreting my words. I don't like to discuss stuff that I don't know about. Erm ... or at least I think I know about.  ;) And we all experience the "self-no self"-game very often. Are we aware of it? And I am quite sure that you know it, too, maybe without labelling it as such.
We meditators tend to take everything too serious. That's why I put my post there ... I had the feeling to do so. So please don't reduce my posts to an intellectual "head thing" because they aren't. Erm ... at least they aren't all the time  ;)  And I don't even know what "sofisticated" means?

Something for your toes, then: (Caution! Another joke coming through!) Maybe your self-noself doesn't enjoy too much to hear that it is not important enough to be discussed seriously? (Serious again): Self or no self, who cares? Something is sitting on the cushion ...  ;)

But since I am right and wrong at the same time, you may believe me and not believe me in one go.

Non-Egothing-Metta to You, Stefan
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 06:47:42 AM by stefan »
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2011, 06:44:06 AM »
*Mod-mode on*:

Stefan, please start a "duality"-thread or go back to topic.

greez  8)
anicca

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2011, 08:40:41 AM »
Sofisticated (misspelled)
Sophisticated meaning;
Quote
To cause to become less natural, especially to make less naive and more worldly.

Quote
Stefan, please start a "duality"-thread or go back to topic.


Do you have problems with Insomnia?  ;D   ;)

DANE01

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2011, 10:44:00 AM »
Guys, something amazing has happened.

As you may remember, I suffer from a social phobia, which is what led me to meditation in the first place.

I have been seeing a psychologist for the past year or so, and two days ago, we had a breakthrough. I think.. I think I may have been cured of my social phobia. Holy shit.. I have actually been cured of my social phobia  :). And it was something I achieved without meditation, meds, relaxation excercises or anything else. I'm sitting here in my apartment, listening to some of my favourite music, smoking a cigarette and literally crying out of joy. After so many years, I have been cured of my social phobia. I almost can't believe it. Yet it is true. I have been cured of my social phobia.

This Tuesday, I went to see my psychologist as I have done every two weeks for the past year, and I finally realized something. I realized that whenever I had to speak in a public setting, a thought or a voice would pop up inside of my head and say "oh no, now you are gonna sound nervous". It's amazing, I had never really noticed this thought before, because it has just been an automatic response for so many years. But through the therapy, we found out that this is what I said to myself right before becoming anxious.

The next day at work, I really paid attention to these thoughts, for the first time in my life. And indeed, every time I would have to speak up in a public setting, this voice would pop up. For the past two days, I made an effort of paying attention to this voice every time it popped up, just noticing it. And something amazing happened: Once I started paying attention to it, and actually acknowledged this thougt, it started losing its power over me, and the anxiety went away.

It's just as my experience with meditation; whenever I felt anxious of falling asleep during meditation, that anxiety would go away if I accepted it. And in the same way my social anxiety has seemed to fade once I started recognizing and accepting this internal voice within me in social situations.

Today at the office, I made an effort of paying attention to it once again, and already, it seems to be much harder for the anxiety to manifest itself. Today I couldn't really feel anxious, even though I really tried to  :)! It's incredible, but it makes sense: Once you start acknowledging a fear, instead of fleeing from it, or trying to ignore it, your mind learns that this is no longer something to be afraid of.

I feel so exhilarated: I am starting to get rid of anxiety without using any means of escape whether that be meditation, meds or self-hypnosis; by paying attention to it, I am actually curing it. I can't describe the feeling of joy, bliss and love that I feel right now. I feel like my life is only beginning after so many years. And I know that this is permanent - I'm not using a pill, which will lose its effect eventually, I'm not meditating, which I may have to stop eventually - I have simply identified my source of anxiety, and am paying attention to it. And in this way, the anxiety loses its power.

In the light of this, it was actually a good thing that meditation impeded my sleep so severely. If it hadn't, I might have gotten a significant anxiety relief from meditation - significant enough not to pay attention to the therapy I was given - significant enough for me never really to cure my anxiety in a natural, permanent way.

I don't belive in fate or "meant-to-be's", but it seems weird; just 3 minutes of meditation a day would give me bursts of energy to go on for 20 hours and not get any sleep. It seems that there was "something" that wanted to impede my meditation and every other anxiety-relieving excercise I did, so that I instead could face my anxiety in real life, real time, and overcome it.

Ah well, I don't believe in fate. I'm just happy that I've finally got a breakthrough in coping with anxiety. For the first time in years I feel.. free. I feel like this is the beginning of something great: The beginning of my life. I can finally do all the things I want to do, without being overpowered by anxiety. I've had that feeling before, but never in this way. Because my anxiety management would always be centred on trying to circumvent anxiety in some way. And it's not anymore - I'm facing it, and overcoming it.

Today is a great day. This is a great life.

I feel free. And that is the greatest feeling I have ever experienced.

Be well my friends  ;)

Dane

Morning Dew

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2011, 10:56:02 AM »
I am glad you feel free and happy my friend :) well done!

You wrote;
Quote
I feel so exhilarated: I am starting to get rid of anxiety without using any means of escape whether that be meditation

This is not directly for you but rather all the ones new to meditation :) Meditation is not an escape but rather being aware of all that is, being aware of the anxiety without fabricating anything. As you say you gave your attention to your anxiety :) i call attention awareness.
Meditation is not an escape but being attentive/aware in a relaxed manner.

I am realy glad for you :) well done.

Che

Quardamon

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2011, 01:16:56 PM »
Hello Dane,
That is beautiful. So now is a time for celebration. Congratulations.
And then comes a time to oversee how your possibilities have changed. And a time for landing in the new situation, the real harvesting. I trust that will be a good time.
Please, inform us in a few days, how your sleeping is going. Obviously, it was good for you to stop meditation.
Be well,
Quardamon

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2011, 05:16:39 PM »
Great, Dane! Other people fight stuff like that forever. You've "seen" that thought, you realised what it did to you, and you reacted in the only possible way - just focussing your inert awareness on it. I'd say you don't "have been cured" but you cured yourself.

So now ... go for the BIG stages!

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Andrew

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »
Hi Dane
Wow, it is really heart warming to see this resolved. I bet you are almost high with excitement. Any breakthrough when "the truth just sets you free", feels like you're dancing over green hills with wings on you feet and flowers in your hair!!!! You feel like skipping through the streets, hugging people at random, and writing a book called "HOW I GOT FREE"!!!! ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Such a small thought causing all that trouble....who would have thought.. ;)

love

andy
getting it done

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2011, 08:17:25 AM »


Such a small thought causing all that trouble....who would have thought.. ;)


The smaller the thought, the harder to notice.
anicca

Stefan

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2011, 08:20:08 AM »


Quote
Stefan, please start a "duality"-thread or go back to topic.


Do you have problems with Insomnia?  ;D   ;)

yes ... ;) ... my children won't let me sleep ...
anicca

DANE01

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2011, 06:33:24 PM »
Hi guys - great to hear your encouragement and excitement! :) And yes, it certainly feels good.. :). I will use this newfound insight in more and more "high-pressure" social situations, and see how it goes. I feel "prepared" for this in a sense that I've never felt before.

To be honest I've never really understood why the meditation impaired my sleep in the way it did. I tried meditating just 3 mins 2 days ago, and it gave me a rush of energy and bliss afterwards. This rush of energy has lasted since Wednesday actually even though I haven't meditated since, so once again I am suffering from sleep problems.

I did some searching the other day, and found that my state has a lot of similarities with a Kundalini awakening, as I feel cold air on my fingertips, coolness in my legs, a rush of energy, a super-erect spine, occasional bliss and a feeling of "detached" hands and a tingling feeling on my face. It's not all unpleasant, except for the fact that it's so goddamn hard to fall asleep. Yet I doubt it can be a real Kundalini awakening, as it went it away when I stopped meditating, and resurfaced this Wednesday during a short meditation?

Anyways, my sleep problems are due to some kind of bodily rush that I experience from meditation. Now I am gonna stop meditating completely - no more testing here and there :). And hopefully it'll go away.





Quardamon

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2011, 08:36:14 PM »
Hello Dane,
Good to hear from you. Yes, this could be kundalini. Something that is regarded as holy by some who never met it, and regarded as very difficult to handle by most who did meet it. My teacher commented, that one does not need to step into a fire to be able to observe the fire. I am glad that you can keep a distance from it. Sleeping well is a healthy thing.
Be well,
Quardamon

Matthew

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2011, 06:19:04 PM »
Guys, something amazing has happened.

As you may remember, I suffer from a social phobia, which is what led me to meditation in the first place.

I have been seeing a psychologist for the past year or so, and two days ago, we had a breakthrough. I think.. I think I may have been cured of my social phobia. Holy shit.. I have actually been cured of my social phobia  :). And it was something I achieved without meditation, meds, relaxation excercises or anything else. I'm sitting here in my apartment, listening to some of my favourite music, smoking a cigarette and literally crying out of joy. After so many years, I have been cured of my social phobia. I almost can't believe it. Yet it is true. I have been cured of my social phobia.

This Tuesday, I went to see my psychologist as I have done every two weeks for the past year, and I finally realized something. I realized that whenever I had to speak in a public setting, a thought or a voice would pop up inside of my head and say "oh no, now you are gonna sound nervous". It's amazing, I had never really noticed this thought before, because it has just been an automatic response for so many years. But through the therapy, we found out that this is what I said to myself right before becoming anxious........

Dane,

This insight is wonderful and it will change your world. Don't make the mistake of assuming you "achieved this without meditation ....".

How do you know you would have reached this insight without some subtle changes brought on by your meditation experiences? You don't! I suspect there is a link as "insight" is one of the fruits of meditation.

Whatever the case it's good to read your experience and I look forward to hearing more of your progress as things move on. Everything changes. You may want to come back to meditation for some more insight somewhere down the line ...

Warmly,

Matthew

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sinkingthinking

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2011, 11:05:58 PM »
@Vivek

Thanks for the Shinzen Young tip by the way - but I cant seem to find the video..
Here it is  :) Sleep Interruption & A Good Night's Rest ~ Shinzen Young

Andrew

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2011, 12:37:22 AM »
thanks sinkingthinking,

just what I needed to hear! :)

thanks

& love

andy
getting it done

DANE01

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2011, 08:10:20 AM »
>>>MATTHEW

You may actually be right - it's not certain that I had reached this mindfulness state without meditation.. :) I've actually thought about that a couple of times - since I meditated, I've gained much more control over my thoughts, and have become "aware" of them.. I probably owe more to meditation than I might know..

To give you all an update, I can indeed affirm that I did experience a mild Kundalini awakening. It's been a month and a half now, and I've got it under control and have reduced it by 90% through a special diet and a series of habits that counter the Kundalini energy.

I think I'll write a forum entry soon about this, as it seems that most people who suffer from the Kundalini Syndrome don't have a clue as to what to do. Hopefully I'll be able to help some of those who are suffering badly.

Quardamon

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2011, 01:21:55 PM »
Hello DANE01,

Good to hear from you again. I'm glad you found ways to deal with the kundalini. Indeed I have no idea about diet or habits that would help. Maybe the idea to help others after six weeks of experience comes too soon. In my opinion, staying careful is the first thing. So if you would get excited with the idea of helping others, than relax. Take your time, and than later you will be a more solid helper.
If you can post your findings and stay quiet, that is beautiful. I am convinced, that helping others is a good way to deal with kundalini energy. (Or maybe I should say: being aware of a larger circle. What I mean is not a one-way thing.)

I hope you sleep enough now.

Be well,

Quardamon


Matthew

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2011, 08:55:26 PM »
Dane,

Glad you are well and feeling more under control. Kundalini does come and go in some meditation practices. First time I experienced it in 1994 it was like you describe and turned on and off. No special diet but when I changed techniques it went away. In fact it was an advanced meditation I was doing and was not ready for.

Warmly,

Matthew
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DANE01

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #72 on: April 02, 2011, 09:21:50 AM »
>>>QUARDAMON

You are right: It might be better to wait a bit before giving out advice: The Kundalini has flared up again, and I honestly don't think I've slept for three days now  :o, so I'm by no way over this and ready to share my thoughts about a "cure". This time however, I now what to do in order to reduce it.

I talked to an expert on the subject the other day, and he said it would seem like a have an extremely ripe Kundalini, as it got so easily activated. This means I should never meditate again - *sigh*. That's a shame - I really liked it.

Take care guys

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #73 on: April 02, 2011, 09:15:43 PM »
That's not true. Be well.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Quardamon

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Re: Meditation is causing insomnia for me - why?
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2011, 10:03:07 PM »
Hello DANE01,

Do not be sorry about not meditating any more. Kundalini is often seen as an effect of meditation, that has its own process. So in a sense, the you are not doing the meditation, but the meditation is doing you. Just relax, trust, and navigate (if you can). You do not need to add fuel, you do not need to concentrate hard. 
I wish you well.

Quardamon