"Total Freedom" by Krishnamurti

[Venetian]

I've read E. Tolle, Goenka, Yogananda, Thich Nhat Hanh, Goenka, etc but no-one beats this book in freshness in my humblest opinion... 

Every time I re-read it I discover something new about myself... 

[rideforever]

F**in'A.  JK shocks you out of the sleepiness, word by word.  You thought you were going a nice little rest and read a book - JK won't let you rest !

[Morning Dew]

Every time I re-read it I discover something new about myself...

Try and read the The Secret Language of Birthdays,
there you will find even more about your self 

JK is indeed a very wise man and he sure is onto something very important but even he sais it you can not follow another man in search for the truth, you did not listen honestly if quoting him or others, you can reach your peace only by not wanting to reach peace but by facing and being aware of the restless self not rejecting it not judgeing it. As soon you create "effort to achive" you blow it. Let things be as they are by being aware of them, mindfuly in a relaxed state.

If you feel "down" at times and need something to inspire you then yes do read JK a bit but be aware of your ego-self being down and clinging to a book (idea) to bring it up. Read a bit and then go back to sitting. Gain your actual insight. JK's insight is of no importance for us just a tool to use along the path for a while and that is all. Reading means more Ideas.

If you find your self feeling "down" too often you could start taking D3-vitamin pills (2000-4000IU  a day). This will brighten up your days.

Freindly Che

[rideforever]

Actually I disagree with you Che.

Reading JK is meditation.  In fact you can't 'read' his books.  They are not like that.  The process of engaging with the text shocks you so far beyond ordinariness that it is 'meditation'. 

Like koans.  Although they use language, they are not language, but instruments to wake you.  You might think a koan is language, but it is not.  The process of engaging with a koan wakes you.  It cannot be processed.

[Morning Dew]

Reading JK is meditation

Reading yourself is meditation even JK might agree with this 

In fact you can't 'read' his books

The "you" being the ego-self, yes the ego can read and get more ideas after reading it. That is what ego loves  more ideas more reading = more ignorance.

The process of engaging with the text shocks you so far beyond ordinariness that it is 'meditation'

The beginning part of mindfulness meditation is indeed shocking but that is just one small part of the path, realising actualy that one is so conditioned. Through reading JK one gets this intelectualy not actualy but it can inspire you to sit down and do so, and he can inspire you not to follow other peoples ideas but to engage into observing your conditioned self PERIOD

Like koans.

Have no experience with koans, will let others chime in on this one.

Actually I disagree with you Che

Good man for doing so, that is fine with me 

Friendly Che

[Morning Dew]

But I do know what you mean RF when you say "In fact you can't 'read' his books"

If one reads it with a desire to find the recipe to end suffering is to miss the actual message. One is not to aproach his words intelectualy but actualy. How is this done?
By applying mindfulness, by contemplating his words softly, by listening to each of the words ecchoing inside of the very self and what these do to you what they bring up to be. Each word each idea each meaning triggers something in my body-mind and I listen to it, observe it.

What do we consider as 'reading'? is reading just an act of killing time when bored, or desiering to find comforting words in times of depression, or reading it with preconcieved belief, or actualy observing their effect on our body-mind, or something toatly else.

I am sure I understand now what you said before and I agree 

Friendly Che

[Venetian]

I know that reading a book can get your soul to cling/attach to it, but I'm a bit of an artist and that book is such a piece of art! I would like just to hang it on the wall and admire it in order to feel the content of the book as I remember it.

Koans are pure magic Che, you need to buy yourself a book on them ASAP!!! 

All the best, and thank you Krishnamurti for what I consider the best book ever! 

[Morning Dew]

Koans are pure magic Che, you need to buy yourself a book on them ASAP!!!

I thought it is enough to have just one koan to deal with. Like repeating "What is Mu" until you melt away! Why need for a whole book?

but I'm a bit of an artist and that book is such a piece of art!

What do you mean by "a bit of an artist"? You are one or you arent there is no inbetween here. You are a living artist or you are a dying one or a dead one but sure not "a bit of an artist". This is the same as being "a bit of a meditator", like a "weekend worrior", a joke 

Friendly Che 

[Venetian]

What do you mean by "a bit of an artist"? You are one or you arent there is no inbetween here.

I can't believe what I'm reading, pls tell me that your whole sentence was a joke as you highlighted at the end of the paragraph.  That's the perfect example of a dualistic mind that so much damage is doing to meditation and to life in general 

Yesterday I watched a mind-blowing documentary on BBC on quantum mechanics & Co. called horizon:
BBC iPlayer - Horizon: 2010-2011: What Is Reality?

Guys, our reality is not what it seems! Pls watch it if BBC2 allows you to do it and you'll have a great time in grasping the fact that even a look at reality changes a reality... This means that we are much more connected than we think! UNBELIEVABLE documentary! I wish TVs would have more of these! 

[rideforever]

I am going to watch that Quantum Physics documentary, that field is moving towards non-duality rapidly.  I hope that western scientists actually start meditating soon, that would very good !

I have come across several things now that seem to be instruments for 'going beyond' the mind although they appear like everyday things :

- Krishnamurti's books. 
- koans. 
- Gurdjieff's books. 
- self-enquiry (not a book but a question "who am I?")

- mandalas (this is not language based but visual based). 


These all appear on the surface to be to do with language like normal books.  But they are not.  They are instruments for terminating the mind.

The question "who am I?" seems to be a normal piece of language.  But it is not.  By allowing the mind to tackle the question it can bring about the end of mind.

Gurdjieff's 'books' -and you will know if you have tried to read one- are so difficult to read, you have to be utterly attentive completely focussed because the way he writes is so complex.  And it is designed to be.  The purpose of the book is to so contort your mind that you learn something about how the mind words.  The actual story of aliens visiting earth is not really important.

Mandalas I don't know much about but I did come across a description of them being cosmic instruments.  They look like pictures but they are not.

[Morning Dew]

Mandalas I don't know much about but I did come across a description of them being cosmic instruments.  They look like pictures but they are not.

There are also spirit guides and Archangels one can channel and talk to, they too are cosmic instruments     
Not to forgett the power of Crystals mate and what about Reiki, yes lets not forget about that one ... all these are "cosmic instruments" in the hands of a deluded mind.

Let go of it my friend and go back to just sitting if you can. Cling to nothing! You are already a cosmic instrument, you just have to step out of the shadow of the Self which is separating you from all that is.

Or dont let go of it and leap into it and see for your self. I too had to see for my self, was there did it all, reading such books, mandalas, crystals, reiki, spirit guides, angels, listening to native american music, chanting, ki-breathing, you name it mate I did it, and yet I still had that restless heavy feeling which I could not shake away.

And one more thing; Osho is a fool 

Your friend Che

[Venetian]

Let go of it my friend and go back to just sitting if you can. Cling to nothing! You are already a cosmic instrument, you just have to step out of the shadow of the Self which is separating you from all that is.

Yes I agree but mandalas, koans, Gourjeff, Krishnamurti can be good entertainment when we want to have a smile. 

[Morning Dew]

when we want to have a smile

so does smoking pot  jokeing, I know what you mean.

Friendly Che