Author Topic: what do you want what you really really want  (Read 8161 times)

Green Tara

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what do you want what you really really want
« on: January 02, 2008, 07:14:13 PM »
"As meditative mindfulness develops, your whole experience of life changes. Your experience of being alive, the very sensation of being conscious, becomes lucid and precise.Each passing moment stands out as itself; the moments no longer blend together in an unnoticed blur. Nothing is glossed over or taken for granted, no experiences labeled as merely 'ordinary'. Everything looks bright and special. Once your mind is free from thought, it becomes clearly wakeful and at rest in an utterly simple awareness. Breath ceases to be just breath. It becomes a living, changing process, something alive and fascinating. It is no longer something that takes place in time; it is perceived as the present moment itself.
Time is seen as a concept, not an experienced reality.
This is simplified, rudimentary awareness which is stripped of all extraneous detail. It is grounded in a living flow of the present, and it is marked by a pronounced sense of reality.
You know absolutely that this is real, more real than anything you have ever experienced. You awaken to the unceasing changes of your own life. You look around and see everything in flux. It is all rising and falling, intensifying and diminishing, coming into existence and passing away. All of life, and so is your very life. Yet this impermanence is no reason for grief. You stand there transfixed, staring at this incessant activity, and your response is wondrous joy. It's all moving, dancing and full of life."

Mindfulness in Plain English
by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana

that is what I want what I really really want. how about you. Why do you meditate?
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 09:40:04 PM »
Cos I look damnfine on a zafu ;)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 09:43:26 PM »
 :o
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 12:10:00 PM »
No really, if this kind of experience is at all possible, I mean what was described in Gunaratana's book
not the looking damn fine on a Zafu (  it is a valid reason matthew but I know I already got that)
if it is at all achievable I really really want it.
I don’t know if any of you or if you know of anyone who lives this way. Put me in touch with them.


"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 12:34:07 PM »
Dear Tara,

Just don't cling to it too much ("that is what I want what I really really want") or you will fall right back off the path and never get there.

The path is one of letting go not one of accumulation. You will experience glimpses of this as you deepen your practice and then longer dwellings but not if you cling. And if you really discipline yourself you will arrive at your destination of always resting in this state of mind.

I meditate for the same reason as you and because I trust that by arriving at this destination and living in truthfulness I can help the world go round a little more smoothly.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 01:52:49 PM »
Letting go, this is a difficult one for me to understand Matthew, I have no ambition in life to do anything big, to  be anything else or to own anything. All I wanted my whole life is to see the truth. I understand the suffering in life and now I found a path that could eradicate it.
I can’t let go of the desire to do that, in fact I don’t see any other goal in life worth perusing more than that.
This desire is what make me wake up in the morning and sit still through pain and pleasure. It is what make me drag myself out of a good party in the evening so I can again sit still. I don’t know how to let go of the desire to be liberated and carry on perusing it. It was the Buddha's desire to understand  suffering that liberated him wasn’t it ?
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Paul

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 03:47:00 PM »
Tara, do you think that the condition described is something that we already have in us and only has to be seen, or do you think that its a condition that is attained by practice?  For that matter, what do you think Matthew?

At first I saw it as a condition to be attained, and I found myself trying to act out the condition.  Its a bit like when my ego decided it wanted to be a dynamic business consultant with lots of ideas, it tried to act as in a way it thought appripriate.  Active listening, NLP, making flowcharts etc, all the things it thought it should do.  The whole thing was of course a complete farce, and an employer who was miles clever than me used it to charge me out to clients at a high price and pay be a very ordinary salary and make a lot of money for himself.  So when I found myself trying to act spiritual, whatever that is, I decided to just return to my breath and really understand that I was just a set of mental and physical processes, and that object called 'me' was just whatever thought happened to be in my head at that time.  At that point I started getting a few moments of clarity and in those moments of clarity I got the feeling that the truth was always there and everyone in the world is completely capable of seeing it if they can follow the Buddha's instructions to calm the mind.  Seeing it that way helps a lot, although its still unbelievably difficult to see through the illusion of that object called 'me', but its maybe easier to do that then attain a condition that seems a long, long way from here.

Matthew

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 05:04:37 PM »
Tara,

Yes. It was the Buddha's understanding of the unsatisfactory nature of the phenomenal world and our relationship to it that drove him forwards in his search. The point about not clinging, not wanting too much is very well explained by Paul in experiential terms.

It is a condition to be attained, however the attainment is not by accumulating - adding to what you have so striving for it can rebound on you. The attainment is gained through stripping away the false ideas and habituated responses. And the stripping away is a passive process in the sense that you meditate and let be what is and watch and let the habits die slowly of their own accord. This  is a process that lets you naturally release or let go of the obstacles (in the habits of your body/mind) that hold you from truth and truthfulness.

Believe me Tara you will arrive at the goal, you will have done what needs to be done, in this lifetime and you will know these truths.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 06:11:54 PM »
The reason I wrote this post is not becasue I was acting spiritual but because I remembered on the last day of the 10-day course I was talking to a group of old students, and I said after 10 days I am ready to become a nun, they laughed. Few of them said to me "on the first day you asked few of us if we were there to be liberated and if we knew if anyone who had a Satori on the course". They said "I was aiming too high", they just wanted to feel at peace, to get rid of the garbage they have inside, to be happy but none of them was there to be fully liberated. I felt a bit embarrassed that I was aiming too high. After the course I thought, no actually I want to be fully liberated and if I could stop this madness of living unsatisfied life I will and if there is a path to do that then by God I will walk every inch of the way and I will chip at the concrete till the golden buddha emerge.  I asked to know if people have other reasons for doing this.


Believe me Tara you will arrive at the goal, you will have done what needs to be done, in this lifetime and you will know these truths.


I guess all of us will arrive there someday, and all of us will do what needs to be done in this life time.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 11:21:11 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 06:19:16 PM »
Tara, do you think that the condition described is something that we already have in us and only has to be seen, or do you think that its a condition that is attained by practice? 

I practised Nichiren Buddhism for 5 years; it was from the Mahayana branch so in that every sentient being has the potential for achieving Buddhahood this lifetime. Buddhahood is the last in the ten world and you can access it through chanting and reading the louts sutra.

A condition to be attained or something to see inside I don’t know. all I know is that nothing has changed me on a cellular level the way Vipassana did. So I will stick with this for now and see how far it will take me on the path to freedom.
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 06:23:32 PM »

Believe me Tara you will arrive at the goal, you will have done what needs to be done, in this lifetime and you will know these truths.


I guess all of us will arraived there someday, and all of us will do what needs to be done in this life time.
8)

No. Most people will not arrive in this lifetime. Very few. Of the many hundreds of thousands of meditating Buddhists around the world 99.9 something per cent will fail in their goal and fail completely.

Personally I do not know if other lifetimes and rebirths is a reality or a myth so this gives me a very strong motivation to succeed in this lifetime. I can see you too have a deep motivation.

In the Dhamma,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2008, 07:31:20 PM »
That is my point Matthew, I have no idea if I will reincarnate or not all I am sure of is I have this lifetime.
I don't feel very well and I have no idea how much I have got left, well none of us does really.
I don't want on my death bed to know it was within my grasp and I didn't do my best.
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Paul

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2008, 09:46:35 PM »
Hi Tara, please excuse me I didn't mean that I thought you were acting spiritual, in fact I think completely the opposite - that you're completely honest and open.  Matthew said it - you will attain/see the truth in this lifetime through your huge motivation - to me its what Don Juan called 'personal power' in the Carlos Casteneda books.  I also think that you must have already made a lot of progress given some of the experiences that you have talked about in other posts. 

Lol, I just realised that when reading what Matthew wrote after that old ego stepped in there again and asked:  "Am I in that 99.9%?".  At least it makes melaugh sometimes.

I hope you feel better soon.

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2008, 10:29:28 PM »
Dearest Paul,

I took no offence in what you said I was just making my point clearer.
I took no pride in what Matthew said it only means I will get there if I do the work.
I just want to learn how to open my eyes and see the truth.

may all living being be free from suffering
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 11:08:26 AM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2008, 04:51:37 AM »
Dearest Paul,

I took no offence in what you said I was just making my point clearer.
I took no pride in what Matthew said it only means I will get there if I do the work.
I have given up a luxurious life and crossed an ocean and looked death in the face so many times ,
for no other reason but to learn how to open my eyes and see the truth.

may all living being be free from suffering

All of us can get there if we do the work. Even Paul. ;)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Paul

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 09:06:30 AM »
Wow Tara, I'd love to hear your story some day. 

Matthew, lol, excellent!  I guess when you've attained that condition questions like that no longer arise  :-\

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 09:46:13 AM »
I forgot to say the title was “what do you want” but my husband was taking the mick out of the spice girls and singing “tell me what you want what you really really want” in a tenor voice “ he is a trained opera singer” so I added that to the title thinking you will get it.  :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 12:04:04 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Paul

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 02:05:01 PM »
I certainly didn't although now you mention it I don't know how I failed to miss it doh!  I guess 'you gotta listen carefully'  ;D

Matthew

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  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 06:42:51 PM »
I can see the Millenium Dome from my bedroom window. The Spice Girls are in the middle of their 17 night run there. 20,000 tickets a night at between £80 - £100 per ticket.

We worked that out to be in excess of £30 million they will generate from ticket sales alone. I think we know what they really really want.

:)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 07:36:10 PM »
I think we know what they really really want.
:)

Enlightenment ?! ::)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 07:45:06 PM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2008, 07:52:18 AM »
lol Yes all beings seek freedom from suffering.
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2008, 11:17:18 AM »

So, back to my original question? Why do you meditate?
What make you do it day after day (or occasionally)
What have you got out of Vipassana nothing else has given you?

P.S The first attempt took us to explore the intention of the spice girls. Just thought I try again and see where we will land next.

 :) :)
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Matthew

  • The Irreverent Buddhist
  • Staff
  • Meditation: It's a D.I.Y. project.
    • KISS: Keep it simple stupid.
    • Getting nowhere slowly and enjoying every moment.
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2008, 11:18:58 AM »
I hope it's somewhere sunny :)
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Green Tara

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 11:26:47 AM by Green Tara »
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”

Green Tara

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  • Life is just a bowl of cherries
Re: what do you want what you really really want
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2008, 12:04:20 PM »
Or come to Leeds, up here this morning is so beautiful, sunny, crisp and fresh.  :) :) :)
"Samsaric beings! Cling not to worldly pleasures.  Enter the great city of liberation”