Meditation Discussion Forum

Vipassana Meditation Forum => Meditation, Practice And The Path => Topic started by: Username on March 16, 2021, 07:32:44 PM

Title: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Username on March 16, 2021, 07:32:44 PM
...How many people that start mindfulness become happy?

Im willing to bet its less than the gym goers, this was one of the hardest things I ever tried.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Dhamma on March 16, 2021, 11:30:21 PM
The external world and the body (appearance) will never bring enlightenment for they are both empty of inherent existence.

We trick ourselves into clinging to the body and its appearance. But we are foolish for doing so.

I still cling strongly to my body, but a little less so to appearance.

Peace and enlightenment.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Username on March 17, 2021, 05:18:30 AM
The external world and the body (appearance) will never bring enlightenment for they are both empty of inherent existence.

We trick ourselves into clinging to the body and its appearance. But we are foolish for doing so.

I still cling strongly to my body, but a little less so to appearance.

Peace and enlightenment.

and do you answer questions?
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Matthew on March 17, 2021, 09:16:34 AM
Username,

Most people who explore mindfulness for simple life balance or to combat depression find it brings happiness. In many studies mindfulness intervention is as good or better than medication.

Most people who learn how to sit and are following the Buddhist path find contentment, greater compassion, and understanding/wisdom growing.

This isn't a gambling site so no betting. You really need to sit more or you'll never get as handle on it. If you fail to let go and understand it's because your ego is so frightened it creates a wandering mind you have no idea how to tame. Read the calm abiding instructions from the homepage and do it for a couple of weeks, at least 40 minutes per day in one sitting.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Laurent on March 17, 2021, 02:11:51 PM
It's like saying that there are more sick people at the doctor's office. Does that mean the doctor is making people sick?
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Username on March 18, 2021, 08:44:42 AM
hehehe

I think its important because if its not easy you shouldnt tell people what they will get as a result if they are unlikely to get it , like people should know ahead of time ahead of starting this thing, that its really hard, and only 50% of people that start make it?

Not sure if its 50% but judging by gym goers who have n easier task its only 10 % or 5% that make it to their goal.

Do you really think this "only 10 minutes a day" advise is good advice or dangerous advice, I think if you want to be happy you really have too Muller this subject, but that may be because ive been lazy or stupid about it
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: raushan on March 18, 2021, 09:00:33 AM
hehehe

I think its important because if its not easy you shouldnt tell people what they will get as a result if they are unlikely to get it , like people should know ahead of time ahead of starting this thing, that its really hard, and only 50% of people that start make it?

Not sure if its 50% but judging by gym goers who have n easier task its only 10 % or 5% that make it to their goal.

Do you really think this "only 10 minutes a day" advise is good advice or dangerous advice, I think if you want to be happy you really have too Muller this subject, but that may be because ive been lazy or stupid about it

Hi Username,

I completly agree with you regarding this. There is whole scam going on in the name of meditation. Like do 10 minutes daily you will be happy. I don't knoow what 10 minutes/20 minutes of meditation will do but certainly it won't be impactful. It requires full devotion. The more devoted you are the more truth will be revealed to you.

But right now there is spiritual marketing going on. People are making money out of spirituality/meditation that's why there is so much wrong information out there.

I have seen people going crazy doing affirmation/visualization things. Because some people popularized the view using affirmation/visualization technique you can become successful in life.

Exactly 50 % is a too high number. More likely it's less than 5%.

To become elite in any field only very few make it to the top. You can take any discipline scientists, engineering, or bodybuilding.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Siddharth on March 18, 2021, 10:07:31 AM
apart from what raushan has said above I would like to add a little bit.
Somewhere in this forum there is a thread which I read sometime in 2016. There someone described meditation as your ego working to chip away itself. and in that process certain edges of your ego become sharp and hurt, like a glass broken abruptly. Thus, it is almost inevitable to walk the path of liberation and go through periods which quite opposite of "happy", "serene", "feel-good" and everything that is associated with success in one way or the other.

Thus one of the most important thing to be able to progress on the path is the ability to be able to see through the rough patches which are inevitable. Meditation as marketed today is mostly a hightened form of awareness. It is only the very surface of the process of liberation. As you become more aware, you do not become superhuman, rather, you just become more aware of the fabric of how things are, and then surprise surprise, comes the understanding of the first fundamental truth - Dukkha (or suffering). and then it is a significant journey to develop equanimity to see through what your increased awareness shows you, integrate it into your view(hence developing "right view" not just by reading but by experiencing first hand), and be ready to have a little more awareness and dive deeper...

What is being sold is " happiness" as the ultimate outcome of meditation. this is in the first instance a wrong promise. often people dive a bit, and stall into some form of hypnosis to deal with the reality of dukha that they start to observe due to their awareness arising out of practise. they "plateau" into that state, failing to develop equanimity to dive deeper, and try to be "happy". the path is a lonely journey with unpredictable events and experiences lying along the way. there are some games that you only get to play if you go all in. this is one of those games. if you only tip you toe into the waters of meditation and want "happiness", better not even waste even that much time (or so I feel)

This is what I meant when in another post where you asked me to clarify about the ambition wrt meditation. Almost everyone is consciously suffering and looking for things to make that suffering stop - it may manifest in the form of anxiety, loneliness, or anything else. one of the things that is being sold is meditation can fix all this (and in some ways it can, but mostly not if that is your target to start with -  you would be too restless to allow that to happen). Thus working towards something with incorrect notions and expectations mostly brings frustrations and despair. resentment and abstract anger - similar to when suddenly your computer hangs and you feel frustrated in ways that are hard to describe.

Thus you will find as raushan also pointed out that a lot of people will "try" meditation. some will stick with it, and only a few will really be in a worldly sense be living better lives because of the whole effort.

I would also like to point out that the practice works very dynamically and affects your psychology as you become more aware and are able to view the world in more abstract ways rather than tightly defined ways of the culture. thus it is not as simple as cause and effect where one could solve a particular problem using meditation as a tool. It will alter who you are in ways that we do not even know, and that has consequences in real life. for example - a lot of people on the forum have described feeling of not being able to connect with friends and family like "they used to". detachment in general. disinterest in a lot of social conventions that may cause alienation in some places etc. People(including me) still feel somehow that we have gained more than what we have let go. perhaps what we let go was obstructing our "happiness", perhaps we became more egoistic(remember the ego with sharp edges like broken glass)..

Anyways, I hope you got a little better feel of what you are dealing with.

Quote
and do you answer questions?

PS : i would also like to point out that people here are devoting time from their lives, making significant trad-offs only out of compassion and thus It would be appreciated if  one is more compassionate, and healthy participant in the forum; respecting what someone else is saying, rather than only trying to push one's own agenda. maybe this will help everyone.

Siddharth


Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: raushan on March 18, 2021, 09:31:30 PM
Really nice explanation by Siddharth.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Username on March 19, 2021, 07:02:51 AM
Thankyou Raushan and Siddharth , im there basically, but we all only have 1 life, people should not be so reckless with information promises marketing the way they treat others etc  theres no 2nd life 2nd chance so you shdnt be able to screw each other so badly .

They should be very honest about both the pros and cons, yes its great, one of the best smartest things you can do, BUT its really fing hard, and it will take a long long time, and there's a risk you wont get what you want after all that time, and the people that teach this stuff are not quite with it alot of the time , liek they dotn know whats really going on and tehy are teh teachers

Some will find it easier than others and so on.

Instead of just 10 minutes a day super happiness yay go go go .... (u might help more ppl this way? but its irresponsible to many too )

Everyone deserves PROPER advise imo, maybe they shd say just 10 minutes a day and then decide if u want to commit and ull find you probably do, heres what the whole thing entails ...
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: raushan on March 19, 2021, 08:26:30 AM
Hi Username,

I agree with you but many people whos suffer from depression, anxiety, addiction find meditation is a better option than Antidepressant or anti-anxiety drugs. For addicted people or those who suffer from depression spending 1 hour or 20-30 minutes in a day won't be the big deal. If it increases just slight productivity it will be a net gain for them.

Also, these drugs have huge side effects. If you know Jordan Peterson he is a very popular figure right now in the USA and Canada. He was dependent on Anti-anxiety drugs for a long time. When he tried to quit, it nearly killed him.

Like everything in life, it's trial and error. Even if you try to find a good martial art teacher you have to spend at least 1-2 months with several teachers before you find a good one.

I don't see anything much different in meditation.
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Siddharth on March 19, 2021, 09:54:59 AM
Thankyou Raushan and Siddharth , im there basically, but we all only have 1 life, people should not be so reckless with information promises marketing the way they treat others etc  theres no 2nd life 2nd chance so you shdnt be able to screw each other so badly .

They should be very honest about both the pros and cons, yes its great, one of the best smartest things you can do, BUT its really fing hard, and it will take a long long time, and there's a risk you wont get what you want after all that time, and the people that teach this stuff are not quite with it alot of the time , liek they dotn know whats really going on and tehy are teh teachers

Some will find it easier than others and so on.

Instead of just 10 minutes a day super happiness yay go go go .... (u might help more ppl this way? but its irresponsible to many too )

Everyone deserves PROPER advise imo, maybe they shd say just 10 minutes a day and then decide if u want to commit and ull find you probably do, heres what the whole thing entails ...

One of the things that meditation has helped me develop is to see things as they are, and still be centred; instead of projecting what should be on reality and loosing equnimity.

A lot of things should not be the way they are (based on the present day morality)...but that is nothing more than wishful thinking. If you look at who we have evolved from, what acts we did as human beings just to survive as the dominant species on the planet, you will think of who we are differently.

When we have roof over our heads, food to eat etc. it is easy to assume we are "good" , but often we are only focussing on the veneer of civility covering the oceans of complexes that we contain within. both individually and as society. you will develop empathy for things around you, when you see within and face the darkness that you carry. you are not an alien amidst a species of "bad people", in many ways you are the heir to everything that culture is - the good the bad and the ugly. the question is - what are you going to do with it ? - complaining and loosing equanimity over what you observe as reality is too easy, can you change any of that for better ? even your own self ? can you even face the darkness that lies within ?

raushan mentioned jordan peterson. that guy also talks about the individual and societal shadow elements - from a jungian perspective. If meditation is too much of a commitment at present for you, you might want to try out his maps of meaning lectures for intellectual simulation (they have nothing to do with meditation, buddhism, vipassana or this forum and this suggestion might or might not help you on the path of liberation, it is just connected to what I wrote here)
Title: Re: I noticed most people that join the gym do not get a great body...
Post by: Laurent on March 24, 2021, 01:16:30 AM
I agree with you on the fact that there are a lot of marketing arguments aimed at the general public promising high and low, when it is perhaps just the opposite.
It is certain that meditation takes time, and even more if one engages in it philosophically (or religiously).
So if you love your life and don't want it to change, go your way.
I do not think that everyone is made for this as some people would like us to believe. The Buddha never claimed that.
For me, the dhamma was love at first sight, so I never asked myself the question.
Maybe you should take an interest in the Buddha's teaching and see if it resonates with you.