Meditation Forum

Vipassana Meditation Forum => Meditation, Practice And The Path => Topic started by: mobius on January 27, 2019, 02:03:29 AM

Title: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: mobius on January 27, 2019, 02:03:29 AM
I read about this; and now am finding it in my own practice  :) (?)

Well here I go again rambling on  ;D
after several months of meditation now I've noticed some things just recently developing.

When I was a child I saw the world differently (needless to say...). For example I'd often wake up early morning (the sun is rising but it's still dark) and see something on my bedroom floor but I can't make out what it is... and I would imagine it's a racoon or scary face or some odd, undefinable thing but not anything recognizable. I knew it wasn't really a demon face or anything like that but I'd stare at it trying to figure out what the hell it was and could not; until I get out of bed, moving and my perspective of it would change; the face vanishes of course and I see that, oh it's just a towel on the floor.

This hasn't happened to me since I was very young; now it's happening again. I really wonder if it's good or bad. Likely it doesn't matter at all. But it's interesting.
What it is really, according to what I know anyway, is a 'simpler or child like' perception. We evolved to live on the safe side by imagining things that are literally not there. Cavemen stayed alive if they assumed that rustle in the bushes was a dangerous animal, not just the wind (as it may really have been).
Then we came to live in these societies which are much safer than what humans have been so used to. And we've come to categorize some of these older perceptions as illusory or whatever.
Or maybe I'm overthinking that and it doesn't really have much to do with evolution.

What was better: seeing things as they 'really' are? Or seeing fun illusions that I don't believe are real? Now I know someone is going to say to me; just ignore it; let it be. Or what is 'real' and 'illusion' anyway? Now I'm putting words into mouths of people who haven't even responded yet. (This is why I got into meditation; my ego really is a bastard)
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: stillpointdancer on January 27, 2019, 11:34:51 AM

What was better: seeing things as they 'really' are? Or seeing fun illusions that I don't believe are real? Now I know someone is going to say to me; just ignore it; let it be. Or what is 'real' and 'illusion' anyway? Now I'm putting words into mouths of people who haven't even responded yet. (This is why I got into meditation; my ego really is a bastard)

We have 'pattern seeking' brains which, for reasons of survival, 'see' things where none exist. The reason is that it's far better to assume that something is there, just in case there really is something, than to ignore the possibility that something is there which can harm us. I prefer to see what is 'really' there, but can still enjoy the 'illusion' for what it is rather than ignoring it.
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: Mert on January 27, 2019, 06:59:55 PM
Non-existance is exist too. It’s called absence.

Dreaming doesn’t mean dream isn’t in happening. They’re both reality, consciousness. What you’re thinking to choose is both duality and it’s what we’re originally trying to be free of.

What’s duality? Your character. That is not “you.”  If you look at what people originally called “enlightened”, it meant having no self, close to the pure happening. Being free of self. Some call it being free of misery. That’s what’s there to strive. Daoists call it being the one. Yoga students call it relief even if for a little while.

Originally what you call child-like mind is actually “close” to this, childs have no fully-constructed self. They’re not choosing to do anything, just because they can’t, that’s all. Practice of meditation makes you return to this state of mind by choosing just not choosing anything and frees you. At that point you are the child. I believe this was what you meant.

What you call choosing to live in dream, educating your ”self” to be controlled superhuman schizophrenic is not the focus of practice, I’m sure some monks achieved it though. In ancient Greece doctors would treat crazy people by making them overly occupied, free of misery. Does it sound familiar?
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: Laurent on January 28, 2019, 06:25:03 PM

What was better: seeing things as they 'really' are? Or seeing fun illusions that I don't believe are real? Now I know someone is going to say to me; just ignore it; let it be. Or what is 'real' and 'illusion' anyway? Now I'm putting words into mouths of people who haven't even responded yet. (This is why I got into meditation; my ego really is a bastard)

But seeing illusions as being illusions, isn't it seeing things as they are ?
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: Ottercreek on January 29, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
True, Laurent! But, when you also "see" yourself feeding them, the picture is even more complete. Maybe it's even "seeing" WHY you feed them that eventually makes them less interesting. I'm not saying, Mobius "shouldn't" feed them, it's just that I get the impression that over time, as you keep practicing, these illusions become less interesting for most people, is that right?
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: Laurent on February 01, 2019, 01:47:34 AM
It seems right to me  :)
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: mobius on February 09, 2019, 02:35:21 PM
I'm sorry that I don't often have any good responses to make; but I just want to say I really do appreciate the responses and answers to my questions here; they've been helpful.  :)
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: mobius on February 10, 2019, 12:09:37 AM
I'm sorry that I don't often have any good responses to make; but I just want to say I really do appreciate the responses and answers to my questions here; they've been helpful.  :)

Another thing  i noticed which also reminded me of my childhood was when riding in the car recently i found myself staring out the window and looking at every object  passing by. Instead of day dreaming endlessly like i usually do.
Title: Re: a 'child-like' mind
Post by: tbarron on February 13, 2019, 10:39:49 PM
...
When I was a child I saw the world differently (needless to say...). For example I'd often wake up early morning (the sun is rising but it's still dark) and see something on my bedroom floor but I can't make out what it is... and I would imagine it's a racoon or scary face or some odd, undefinable thing but not anything recognizable. I knew it wasn't really a demon face or anything like that but I'd stare at it trying to figure out what the hell it was and could not; until I get out of bed, moving and my perspective of it would change; the face vanishes of course and I see that, oh it's just a towel on the floor.
...
What was better: seeing things as they 'really' are? Or seeing fun illusions that I don't believe are real? Now I know someone is going to say to me; just ignore it; let it be. Or what is 'real' and 'illusion' anyway? Now I'm putting words into mouths of people who haven't even responded yet. (This is why I got into meditation; my ego really is a bastard)

Hi, Mobius,

Your original message made me think of the old story about the man at twilight seeing what he thinks is a snake on the ground. He's terrified at first, but as he gets closer and looks more carefully, he sees that it's just a piece of rope. He laughs at himself in relief and goes on about his business.

For me, the moral of the story is to not stop looking until I see what's really there and remember that my mind plays tricks on me. I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the fun illusions as long as they're fun and seen through. Some illusions, if we don't see through them, wind up causing us stress and suffering.

Tom