Meditating in our dreams?!

[Stefan]

Strange question ... anyone ever meditated while sleeping? Not just dreaming you sit on the cushion but dreaming you meditate with results actually happening? Bringing awareness into your dream-consciousness? Staying aware in your dream, hold on to meditation, stay equanimous to the fact that you dream while you are aware of it?

I had an experience like that a while ago ... I remained with this for some seconds, I guess, and then it freaked me so totally that I awoke beside my bed, every hair standing upright ... I wouldn't go to bed again, wouldn't turn out the lights ... it was an experience too strange to stay cool ...

but then ... hours of "silly dreams" ... why not sit in your dreamtime?
(yes it sounds stupid, but I am serious about it)

Oh well, bedtime ... have nice dreams, everybody ...

[Andrew]

It would suit me if I could work it out! Though getting freaked out by it would be a drag.

Years ago when I was into the new age alot, I used to astral travel, and fly in dreams. My wife was lucid dream flying and seeing angels vividly a week ago, but she was also reading a book about angels. So what goes in definitely comes out in dreams!

If it was a while ago, perhaps you were also really 'into' the meditation reading at that stage also?

betta metta

A

[Mungo]

Sometimes in a dream I know that I am dreaming and also aware of my sleeping body at the same time in that "I" am sort of in between the two watching.

I had one a few months back where I was in my dreamscape. Its the only place I have dreams in and covers maybe 30-40sq kilometers. This "middle" me seems to suggest things to dream me and sort of feels like an idea before verbalising it . As I go from place to place it is like I am a bulb (the plant kind) in that I am planted in one area, then dream activity grows, then I get pulled out and replanted elsewhere to grow again. It eventually ended up in a hotel room that I was leaving from. I got down to the ground floor but realised I had forgotten my head(?) I went back up to the room and remembered that whilst having a shower my head had fallen out. I went in, grabbed my head and set it down on the bed. I then sat cross legged in front of it and concentrated (meditated?) on it. It had no skin so all the muscles and tendons were sort of wet and slimy, I could see my teeth all around but my eyebrows were still there and I could feel the sensation of raw coldness on my face. There was also a hole in the forehead and there was a bluish white crystal under the skull. I sat there for seemingly ages. When I woke up though I had this incredibly blank 10-20 seconds. I had no idea where or who I was or what I was looking at just no concept of anything. Then the room sort of flowed back into recognition and I sat up with a WTF was that.

[Matthew]

@Stefan

No but sometimes have very lucid dreams that foretell the future. Such as the one in October 1998 when I dreamt Cardinal Ratzinger would be the next pope (now true) and the last pope (let's see).

@Mungo

That is a very rich Dhamma dream. The blue crystal would be seen in Tibetan interpretation as Vajra nature or cutting insight, a power of awake mind. The fact you forgot your head after it fell off in he shower says you need to practice more to bring that out.

[Mungo]

The fact you forgot your head after it fell off in he shower says you need to practice more to bring that out.

HAHA Dont I know it.

Thanks

[Stefan]

... but there's also a point to it that you sat down in front of your head without actually freaking ...
loosing your head means also getting rid of "heady" intellectualism

[Mungo]

Yes TMO. That has been the main point I have found most valuable since starting this practice. I have seen this huge difference between intellectualizing and conceptualizing versus a pragmatic approach to knowing and seeing. It has opened the world up quite a bit both inside and out.

Take Care all

[Andrew]

The sinews are significant as well, I've had a similar one myself, although it did scare me. I found this guys artwork the other day, 

[Masauwu]

So dreams can actually have significance. I had a few unusual ones but i discarded them thinking they are just an outlet for my daily monkey mind`s unfinished business.

Last year after trying a few meditation sittings, while dreaming something i had a moment inside the dream where some part of me woke up inside the dream and realized i was dreaming, and started laughing after that realization; the dream then went on, i don`t remember it, but that moment of realizing and laughing i remember like it was yesterday. I had dreams where i knew i was dreaming in the past, but this one was very different, more vivid.

A few weeks ago during a dream i had these strong body sensations like waves of energy vibrating through my whole body, and two weeks ago in a different unrelated dream the same sensations manifested. I never had body sensations in a dream before, not so vivid anyway; both times after it happened i remember being half asleep half awake, sleep being interrupted by this. First instinct was to ask about it but then i thought it might be just a projection of my eagerness for results.

[Vivek]

I had an experience like that a while ago ... I remained with this for some seconds, I guess, and then it freaked me so totally that I awoke beside my bed, every hair standing upright ... I wouldn't go to bed again, wouldn't turn out the lights ... it was an experience too strange to stay cool ...

I hear that it is a good indication of progress if you find yourself meditating even in your dreams. Even better is when you get moments in dreams wherein you realise that you are just dreaming. That happens quite rarely. Maybe it's a good thing. So, for now, you can just acknowledge that you are making good progress, TMO. (just a little, OK?)

[Andrew]

I say significant, but I don't know why, so is that still significant? 

Most of my 'significant' dreams are collecting dust in corners of my mind. Important? maybe, but more like distracting if no-one can help you through them. I only say that as I had a whole spate of 'disgusting' dreams like this many years ago It is only now 6/7 years later I can understand some of what was going on. I like the term 'Dhamma dream' Matthew used, it keeps it in the flow of everything else going on.

Those waves of energy sound like astral body stuff. I have not re-examined any of my own experiences in the light of dhamma so I don't really know more than what a quick google will reveal, and if such things are real as a phenomena beyond being hallucinations I don't know. Is there such a thing as an Astral Body? Science says no, I think. I never cared much for science.

It's a cool light show, body rush, stuff to talk about moment, that's for sure.   It makes life interesting and no-one gets hurt, that alone has got to be good for something! I think all sorts of things shake loose when transitioning from one paradigm to another, and the fact yours are so recent would tell me you are openning up at deep levels to a new way of seeing and experiencing the world. Write it down, and move on. One day you will make sense of them perhaps.

I'm such a preachy bastard aren't I? Someone needs to tell me to go and sit. Anicca! Thwack! 

[Morning Dew]

@ Andrew
Go and sit !!!

[Stefan]

I am reading your posts with interest! (Though probably the most significant is Dusko's ...  ... whack, whack ... )
For now, just a clarification.

I had an experience like that a while ago ... I remained with this for some seconds ...

I hear that it is a good indication of progress if you find yourself meditating even in your dreams. Even better is when you get moments in dreams wherein you realise that you are just dreaming.

I have to be more precise on this. Yes, I dreamt I meditated, but it was just a dream, not of importance. But I had this moment where my daily-life-awareness took over in my dream. It happened as a result to a Castaneda-exercise, "a while ago" meaning about ten years. Those of you who know his books will know what exercise I am referring to: the first step to "dream-body". I managed it!    That was scary, but I was no Vipassanaut then, so I dropped the whole thing again.
Nowadays, I am not so much into gaining "magic cosmic superyogi powers", so I never went on with those exercises ... what for? My Ego is big enough already (it's a TMO-thing ... btw did you know that The Marvellous Omannobazong!!! is seated in the centre of the universe?).

But then, reading of the difficulties so many have with actually finding time to sit, I had the idea of taking up this practice again and maybe gather enough awareness to really sit in my dreams. But I wouldn't try it without having heard all your opinions. And especially: if it is possible, then somebody did it already. Anyone? What do the scripts and scriptures tell us on that?

Metta, Stefan

[Morning Dew]

Nowadays, I am not so much into gaining "magic cosmic superyogi powers"

Good for you
That is why i say "Save the trees! Wipe your ars with an Owl"

... whack, whack ...

[Masauwu]

if it is possible, then somebody did it already. Anyone? What do the scripts and scriptures tell us on that?

I have no knowledge of this, but Dobe did try to bring up the subject of dream yoga in this topic. This is not for the purpose of exploring supernatural states for the sake of curiosity of adventure, but if you dream anyway and there is such skill in which you take complete control of those intervals, why not make use of that time you gain to further your current practice. Hopefully someone with direct experience in this could help us with answers.

[thelastrich]

I'm trying to be a lucid dream as pleasure. I talked about this a while ago.
For now I got 5 little lucid dreams, from the beggining of the dream where I know "I'm getting into a dream now", until the wake up.
I didn't got time to meditate in that short time, but I will someday.

In the books I have read they talk about experience meditating into the dreams. They say that in dreams the experience of meditating is more depth, with more advance. It also makes you aware that the reality is a pure creation of the mind.
And the answer is no, I'm not attached to this, but It don't waste any time, I practice when I go to sleep, and If I get to somewhere cool, if I don't then it's ok.

I have read the books in spanish, but the original version was english, I will translate the title but It can be a little different from the originals:

the yoga of dreams
exploring lucid dreams

The first one is pure meditative, in the yoga way, I don't follow this, I continue with calm-abiding.
The second one is more scientific and in direct-application.

[thelastrich]

The yoga of dreams:

http://es.scribd.com/collections/3000980/The-tibetan-Yogas-of-Dream-and-Sleeo

Exploring the lucid dreams:

http://es.scribd.com/doc/230942/Exploring-the-World-of-Lucid-Dreaming-by-Stephen-LaBerge

There they are.

[Andrew]

Thanks Miguel, That Tibetan one is great.

[Stefan]

great input, thanks!
it starts to grow to a fascinating topic, this one ...

[Matthew]

It takes an extreme level of realisation to maintain awareness while sleeping. Generally this is proceeded by a much reduced need to sleep.

[Stefan]

It takes an extreme level of realisation to maintain awareness while sleeping. Generally this is proceeded by a much reduced need to sleep.

So you'd say it's a useless effort, and I'd better wait until it comes naturally?

[Matthew]

Yes. It's a fabrication otherwise and purely ego-driven.

[Stefan]

 

Just realised it ... the ego works on "high levels" also, and that's what I did here ...
It was the old "how-can-I-progress-faster"-trap, taken round the whole wheel to pop up again.

I need to state it every once in a while: Your inputs are extraordinarily helpful, Matthew. Thank you!

Metta, Stefan

[Matthew]

Thanks .. good to know I can be quite useful for an annoying guy

[Stefan]

... annoying ...

     ... am I?