Author Topic: Getting Rid of Hate  (Read 6499 times)

Mindfullness

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Getting Rid of Hate
« on: June 18, 2011, 11:12:50 AM »
I wanted to know what is the correct approach to take with feelings of hatred(particularly feelings that have lasted, say, a few years)? My hatred is directed towards particular people for something they did. I just cannot get over my hatred of these two people. For the past few years, it has gotten to the point where I daydream over bad situations happening with these people. What's worse is that I sometimes--at least twice a week--think of these people so much that I get really angry and feel hurt and upset. I have not been practicing body-calming meditation in the past few months, so I think it is time to get started on that. I also will be seeing a CBT therapist in the fall. I feel like I cannot control these thoughts and they are connected to these persistent feelings of self-hatred and self-doubt that I have had for a long time(hence, the CBT therapy in the fall and my interest in meditation).

What I wanted to know is, outside of meditation, what should my approach be to hatred? Should I accept that I have hateful feelings/thoughts, and just move on...or should I try not to even have hate in my heart? 

Masauwu

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 12:02:09 PM »
I too have someone that i cannot forget or forgive for things in the past. Not to the point of wishing bad things, but it weighs tons on my mind and on my heart; i`d rather carry around a rock weighing tons than this, if i could.

I think meditation is the key to understanding and letting go, but until i get to that point, i am using a somewhat rational approach. I came to the conclusion that these people do not know any better. This is the logical result of all their mind parts. If we had the same parts, we would react the same just like the picture in a puzzle. In the big picture, i am not my mind and he is not his mind because mind can change. You are upset now, or you can come to a reconciliation next year, that will be the same person you hated now. Like someone in Spiderman wanted to say and got edited - it`s not our flaws that define us, but how we deal with them once they arise.

Also you could try noting the feeling of hatred as it arises, and then move your focus on breath or something else. This way you are aware of the feeling without letting it fully take control of you.
The summer river:
although there is a bridge, my horse
goes through the water.

Morning Dew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 12:04:42 PM »
If you dwell in the hateful feeling you are generating hateful thoughts.
Instead practice Metta towards the self those you love and at last those people you dont like at this time.
Base this practice on Calm-abiding of course. You can do Metta before the actual sitting or afterwards.

Try google Metta and print out a version which resonates well with you. Read it aloud if you can for best result. I did it silently and it doesnt realy work that good.

Be well

Morning Dew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 12:16:06 PM »
This is how i practice just add the names of the people in question

Quote
May i be well. May no harm come to me. May i be freefrom suffering. May i have courage to meet life difficulties with equanimity and compassion. May i be kind towards myself. May i forgive my self. May i benefit from good and honest friends. May I alow myself to be happy and loved.

May this Sangha be well. May no harm come to it. May this Sangha be free from suffering. May all our members have courage to meet life difficulties with equanimity and compasion. May all of us be kind towards others and oneselves. May we forgive ourselves. May all members of this Sangha benefit from each other. May we all alow ourselves to be happy and loved.

Also read a book called "who ordered this truck load of dung" by ajahn brahm. It might help you gain a skillful perspective to inspire you towards forgivnesd

dragoneye

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 03:33:08 PM »
A few years ago, I became consumed with jealousy. After awhile I realized it was so severe that I was becoming physically sick and unable to function in a normal manner in many areas of my life. That is a pathology.

Hatred is very similar.

... you could try noting the feeling of hatred as it arises, and then move your focus on breath or something else. This way you are aware of the feeling without letting it fully take control of you.

Masauwu, that is exactly what I did, and it not only cured my jealousy; I understood the mechanism for many of our other taapas, as well as, how insidious our egos' appetite for attention is.

Mindfulness, that is what I would recommend.
With metta,
DE
Dragoneye

Stefan

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 05:06:58 PM »
It helps to think of "hate" as about physical pain.
Pain arises, I regard it equanimously, it will pass.
Hatred arises, I regard it equanimously, it will pass.

Since "hatred" is difficult, there`s a trick:
as soon as hate arises, there will be bodily feelings arising together with the hatred. They are the bodily expressions of your hatred (often seated in the stomach).
So, in a situation like this, meditate on your bodily feelings with equanimity. As soon as those bodily sankharas dissolve, also this wave of hatred will dissolve. If you do this regularly, then you will reach a point where those waves of hatred will become smaller and vanish.

I wouldn't recommend Metta in this specific situation, since I think it's impossible for the average student to do it properly on people who we hate pathologically. I, at least, couldn't.

Metta to you. If the hate is strong in you, you don't need to give Metta, You need to receive Metta.
Metta to You, Stefan
anicca

Vivek

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »
Dear Mindfullness,
 
  I cannot help but notice the touch of concern you have for yourself and for the people you hate (yes, I mean it!). You see, the good thing, and it is also the most important thing, is that you are aware of your hatred for those people. And you are also aware and accepting of the fact that this hatred you carry within you, is more harmful to you than to those people you hate. Isn't that why you are so worried about carrying on with this negativity that you are even willing to try out therapy to get rid of it?! And I think that is a good option. Three things that have helped me fight my own battles are: commitment, persistence and flexility. Flexility is the ability to look for more options and possibilities than we would normally think of in any situation. Persistence without flexibility can at times lead to dire consequences, if and when we fail to notice that what we are doing is not working. So, it's great to know that you are open to more possibilities to deal with your issues, but, also have the attentiveness to notice whether what you are doing, is helping you get your outcome.

And I also agree with TMO, doing Metta at this stage, can prove counter-productive. So, let's not try that for now. Do let us know how the therapy goes, by the way.

Wish you all the best. 
Let's go beyond this illusion, shall we?

Quardamon

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 07:13:09 PM »
Mindfullness,

I would make a difference between two situations:
1. There is something the matter now, actually, for which you hate someone. Maybe someone should give you money back, and you need it. But he does not want to give you the money.
2. You hate a person for something that happened in the past, or you hate someone for things that you have little or no effect upon. (Like we can hate the lover of our ex-wife, or politicians.)

In the first case, find some way to leave the matter behind you. Like asking someone else to settle the thing for you, or simply regard the money as lost.
In some cases, avoiding to see the persons might help.
If it is something of the past, it will help to see in what situation you are now.

I wish you clarity.


Andrew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2011, 03:16:20 AM »
Hi Mindfulness,

Good to hear from you again my friend. I remember you speaking about an incident with your cousin and a friend and overhearing them speak about you, is this the same situation you are dealing with?

Definitely get back into the calm-abiding and do what Stefan has suggested, (focus on the physical sensation;, watch the energy in other words).

I cannot help but think that the hatred you feel is actually you projecting your feelings onto these people as you fear this is actually who you are, especially the shame you feel in relation to your family. I feel for you mate, as I type this compassion arises for you. You are a beautiful person who is needing, like stefan said, to receive some loving kindness. As it still may be too painful to talk with your parents, it will be best to work through these physical sensations and get used to what they are on their own.

Those who read my posts will remember this is how I got past the initial frustration and anger when I started 6 months ago;, see the sensations that we normally call anger, and watch them without calling them anger. Note them like this "Prickly, buzzing, tighness in the chest, falling feeling in the belly, flushed face" Use these concrete words instead of the abstract ones. Buddha is noted as saying that a monk trains himself to see the "body as the body, earth as the earth" etc. I.e removing all the abstractions and verbalizing, fabrications and story telling is the path to freedom. After a few sessions of this type of noting practice you may start to notice the texture of the feelings as being generally warm and buzzing. From there learn to breath them through the body, circulating them and releasing that energy. Worked for me.

Dusko gave a nice insight to anger the other day, that it is grief that needs to be let out. So find some sad songs, have a cry, feel the emotions at other times. Explore them and get that release as well.

Sit every day Mindfulness, it is so subtle but powerful, you don't even have to believe to is working for it to work! Just do it and accept that the benefits will appear subtly in time. When they appear, the king of them is mindfulness! You have chosen a good avatar name!

Compassion to you Nyalin, and mateship

Andrew
getting it done

Mindfullness

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 07:47:20 AM »
Hi Mindfulness,

Good to hear from you again my friend. I remember you speaking about an incident with your cousin and a friend and overhearing them speak about you, is this the same situation you are dealing with?

Definitely get back into the calm-abiding and do what Stefan has suggested, (focus on the physical sensation;, watch the energy in other words).

I cannot help but think that the hatred you feel is actually you projecting your feelings onto these people as you fear this is actually who you are, especially the shame you feel in relation to your family. I feel for you mate, as I type this compassion arises for you. You are a beautiful person who is needing, like stefan said, to receive some loving kindness. As it still may be too painful to talk with your parents, it will be best to work through these physical sensations and get used to what they are on their own.

Those who read my posts will remember this is how I got past the initial frustration and anger when I started 6 months ago;, see the sensations that we normally call anger, and watch them without calling them anger. Note them like this "Prickly, buzzing, tighness in the chest, falling feeling in the belly, flushed face" Use these concrete words instead of the abstract ones. Buddha is noted as saying that a monk trains himself to see the "body as the body, earth as the earth" etc. I.e removing all the abstractions and verbalizing, fabrications and story telling is the path to freedom. After a few sessions of this type of noting practice you may start to notice the texture of the feelings as being generally warm and buzzing. From there learn to breath them through the body, circulating them and releasing that energy. Worked for me.

Dusko gave a nice insight to anger the other day, that it is grief that needs to be let out. So find some sad songs, have a cry, feel the emotions at other times. Explore them and get that release as well.

Sit every day Mindfulness, it is so subtle but powerful, you don't even have to believe to is working for it to work! Just do it and accept that the benefits will appear subtly in time. When they appear, the king of them is mindfulness! You have chosen a good avatar name!

Compassion to you Nyalin, and mateship

Andrew

Thank you to everyone for your kind responses--they have made me feel better about my situation. I also tend to agree that Metta would not be the best for me right now.

Andrew--yes, you are correct, it was that same situation,although it wasn't my cousin, it was two cousins of my friends and those friends laughing at me(at the possibility that I might be gay).  I don't plan on discussing things with my parents for a few years. Thank you so much for your advice. I'm glad you see that I'm a compassionate person.  And your idea about my hate being based on projection, in a way, are very true. That is exactly why it is so hard for me to deal with them. Those feelings have gotten messy and haven't gone away, because they have mixed with my feelings of self-hatred, self-doubt, and fear over my future. You can see now why my feelings towards these people have lasted for so long. That is why I think doing CBT therapy in the fall will be a good step for me. I will certainly continue to do Body Calming meditation.

Random: Today, when I was driving, I realized that I have a BAD memory. When I was driving, it was on a road I've driven on many times in the past few years, after exiting the highway(admittedly, though, I don't drive that much). I was driving with my dad and I was about to take a left turn on the wrong road. My dad was surprised that I was going to do this since I have driven this same way many times and said to me " You are the one who is always meditating--shouldn't you have a good memory and be more aware?". This is when it hit me that my memory isn't really as good as it should be. Now, here comes my question--do you think it is possible that due to my many years of self-loathing, self-doubt, and depression, my memory power has diminished?

Stefan

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2011, 12:26:14 PM »
memory is a matter of awareness
so, of course, all our memories are twisted somehow (not diminished), since none of us is enlightened yet ...

but I wouldn't worry about that one.

we all take wrong turns in time. (I bet even your father does, who only used the situation for a wise remark on this strange meditation-thingy his son is into.)  ;)

Metta, Stefan
anicca

Matthew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011, 11:41:07 PM »
You can forgive everyone when you realise they are stuck in hell.

Be well,

Matthew
~oOo~     Tat Tvam Asi     ~oOo~    How will you make the world a better place today?     ~oOo~    Fabricate Nothing     ~oOo~

Andrew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2011, 02:05:19 AM »
That is GOLD Matthew, I have often thought of that concept, that people don't need additional punishment, the already ARE what the ARE. Your line sums it up beautifully. I'm going to get some bumper stickers made up!

A
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Stefan

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011, 05:39:26 AM »


You can forgive everyone when you realise they are stuck in hell.


so easy ... and so hard to remember, sometimes ...
anicca

DANE01

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2011, 10:36:57 AM »
>>>MINDFULNESS

Hi there. I had some problems that resemble yours. I was plagued by a heavy social anxiety that also caused me to feel feelings of hate, irritation and frustration. And it was severely affecting my life-quality.

I have since been cured, and lead a much better life that is almost devoid of those negative feelings.

The single best advice I can give you, is to see a good psychologist, and stick with it. It took me a full year to be cured by a psychologist, but it was well worth the while. It can feel frustrating at times, as I didn't feel I was making any progress for months. Actually I ended up quitting the therapy for a period of 5-6 months, because I was frustrated by the lack of progress. Fortunately I eventually realized that sticking with the therapist was my best choice for a cure.

About a year into the proces, I had what can be called a "moment of clarity" in my therapy session, where I suddenly realised something pivotal about my unconscious thought processes. That set up a fascinating process where I gradually became more and more aware of the causes behind my anxiety, daily frustrations and negative feelings. Three months later I was completely cured of the social anxiety, and have experienced a number of other effects which have simply made my life a lot better.

I would say the trick is to stick with a good psychologist. Even though you at times may not feel you are making progress.

Best of luck on your journey  :)

DANE01

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2011, 10:50:18 AM »
Quote
Now, here comes my question--do you think it is possible that due to my many years of self-loathing, self-doubt, and depression, my memory power has diminished? 

No, I don't think so. I have a good memory, and I used to have those emotional problems for years.

However feelings of hate, negativity, self-loathing and self-doubt cause an extreme mental pressure and fatigue. Mental stress, is another and more proper word for what the mind is experiencing under those circumstances. And that can certainly affect your memory in the short run, as you'll have less mental capacity and energy when you are constantly in distress.

A peculiar thing is that most people who experience such states often do not think of themselves as stressed or mentally "fatigued". This is simply because they have been used to feeling like that for years, and are not aware of the  peaceful tranquility that can be felt once those feelings are gone. People with heavy anxiety, stress or self-hate, exist in bodies and minds that have simply become used to living a life of mental and emotional pain.

Once you are cured of your condition, you will likely find that you become more "bodily aware" of how great it feels to be alive, and to be content with life as it is. And most likely your memory will also improve, as you will be relieved of a lot of unconscious stresses.

Morning Dew

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2011, 07:53:49 PM »
What great replies you got Mindfulness :)

Andy sais it all, no matter whether you go to a shrink or do meditation or metta or all three all you do observe is the bodily sensations from which the thoughts, perceptions and emotions spring from :)
That is the true practice which you are to give effort to. Here you will directly percieve the arising and passing phenomena of all which takes place.

Even when off the cushion keep the awareness on your bodily sensations.

Be well

Namaste86

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2014, 01:43:32 PM »
hello ,

i have just read this topic and i decided to  reply ..because im struggling with a lot of anger ..In opposite to the author of  this topic its anger towards everybody even towards me ...i was also struggling with anger during the course .. It might covers fear ...im trying to accept that but didnt help. Anybody knows the way of working with this emotion?? should i sit and observe it? i was sitting and paying attention to my chest where i felt strong pressure - after 15 minutes anger disappears...does anybody have his own experience with that?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 01:46:52 PM by Namaste86 »

ramat

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 12:16:30 AM »
Namasthe

This is a great discussion and for any person who is trying to improve his life , hate and anger can become a  mental block.

Few things i like to share  regarding reducing anger , hate

1. Love yourself. Be relaxed even if others hate or do something. Don't yourself letdown.
2. Don't brood on the things. It strengthens the same thought and feeling
3. Be determined to be happy irrespective of circumstances
4. Hate or Anger is our own problem but not for others we blame. We suffer but not them.  See this reality.
5. Everyone is learning and does blunders/mistakes in dealing with others. No one is an ideal person
    Same person we hate is lovable to others sometimes.
6. Prejudice or misuderstanding is many times the root cause.
7. We are here to live life happily but not to be stuck with things that makes suffer.
8. Hate generally cause thoughts of revenge and it is one of main trouble in the society. Don't get into it. If you think you can take some action , take it but don't keep with you for long.
9. Downplay the the emotions and thoughts of this type. Don't believe them as true.
10. Think positive that the other person will change in future.
11. Accept any adverse situations. They are the stepping stones to make ourselves strong.
12. We are all lovable beings in the core but due to self images we created we tend to misbehave thinking to protect when dealing with others. We expand our consciousness through meditation and accept everyone as basically good.

Don't want to write too much.
But in simple words  ..take life easy. Earthly life is not eternal. No one is going to stay here after sometime. We are here  to learn to be happy in all circumstances and share our happiness with all in turn.

With Regards
Rama

deepnigam

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 08:07:35 AM »
in this context i will simply say firstly that hating will first disturb oneself and when ever one see whom he hate in more joyful state then again and again one will disturb himself. so see the body sensations and feel "anichhya"

Atta hi attano natho atta hi attano gati;. -Dhammapada - 380.
You are your own master, you make your own future.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 08:12:24 AM by deepnigam »

Phaedros

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2014, 03:03:43 AM »
This is a great discussion...I suffer with this as well...anger built up over past events that I have trouble with coloring my perception of now..The only thing that ive found helps me is meditation and asana practice to releive tension from my body.But when I get away from that I find myself soon caught in the same trap.
Clothed in no-cloth robe
Feet clad in turtles fur boots
I seize my bow of rabbit horn
And prepare to shoot the devil ignorance.

Phaedros

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2014, 03:15:18 AM »
What great replies you got Mindfulness :)

Andy sais it all, no matter whether you go to a shrink or do meditation or metta or all three all you do observe is the bodily sensations from which the thoughts, perceptions and emotions spring from :)
That is the true practice which you are to give effort to. Here you will directly percieve the arising and passing phenomena of all which takes place.

Even when off the cushion keep the awareness on your bodily sensations.

Be well

I have never thought of it this way...I have always figured the bodily sensations begin in the mind...In other words..that my mind makes these things happen..but then again,I know that thoughts do arise as bodily sensations occcur,.....for example "ouch im hurt".Could it be happining both ways?...I wonder if the difference is different parts of the brain reacting?..
Clothed in no-cloth robe
Feet clad in turtles fur boots
I seize my bow of rabbit horn
And prepare to shoot the devil ignorance.

Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2014, 09:29:08 AM »
Quote
This is a great discussion...I suffer with this as well...anger built up over past events that I have trouble with coloring my perception of now..The only thing that ive found helps me is meditation and asana practice to releive tension from my body.But when I get away from that I find myself soon caught in the same trap.

As soon as you realize you are dwelling in anger bring awareness to present moment and sit like a hawk and watch your mind. Dont let it enter the thoughts that are causing anger. You will realize from this activity that more you let the anger thoughts role more they gain energy. More they gain energy, easily they over power you. Then you yourself will work on the solution once you see the problemo.

Quote
I have never thought of it this way...I have always figured the bodily sensations begin in the mind...In other words..that my mind makes these things happen..but then again,I know that thoughts do arise as bodily sensations occcur,.....for example "ouch im hurt".Could it be happining both ways?...I wonder if the difference is different parts of the brain reacting?..

There is no first and second here.

Dharmic Tui

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Re: Getting Rid of Hate
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2014, 11:58:43 AM »

I have never thought of it this way...I have always figured the bodily sensations begin in the mind...In other words..that my mind makes these things happen..but then again,I know that thoughts do arise as bodily sensations occcur,.....for example "ouch im hurt".Could it be happining both ways?...I wonder if the difference is different parts of the brain reacting?..
I think it happens both ways. Your thoughts can make you feel bad, and if you're already feeling bad it'll influence your thoughts. I know in myself when I've had depressive states, I can wake up feeling shit, and then my mind will gravitate towards shit thoughts and ill feel more shit. Like quicksand.

If you can recognize this and the subjectivity behind it, I.e. you create 100% of the shit, then you're capable of dis empowering it somewhat.

Apologies for the language, it seems the most apt descriptor.