Author Topic: Sort of hyperventilation  (Read 430 times)

Anarcho

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Sort of hyperventilation
« on: July 30, 2017, 08:54:48 PM »
Hello everybody,

I m doing some kind of hyperventilation since 5 years.
It's like if my throat was extremely tight and I can barely breathe.
I tried absolutely everything to heal it, even AD and benzo. But nothing worked.

Do you think that Vipassana could help with observing the sensations into this area and letting go?

Laurent

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 10:37:50 AM »
Hello  :)

Yes, i think so.
It can also have the opposite effect and temporarily increase the issue, but if you keep calm and concentrated, observing the body, it will lower the problem at long term.
Nonetheless, we don't control and choice the results of vipassana meditation, so it is preferable not to practice with this aim but with the global aim of decrease suffering and reach up nibbana.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 10:41:14 AM by Laurent »
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Matthew

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 03:10:47 PM »
Anarcho,

How did it happen that you started hyper-ventilating? Is this just when you meditate or during regular activities. Are there any patterns to it? And - have you checked with a medical doctor there is not an underlying cause they can find?

Kindly,

Matthew
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Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 04:23:05 PM »
Hello  :)

Yes, i think so.
It can also have the opposite effect and temporarily increase the issue, but if you keep calm and concentrated, observing the body, it will lower the problem at long term.
Nonetheless, we don't control and choice the results of vipassana meditation, so it is preferable not to practice with this aim but with the global aim of decrease suffering and reach up nibbana.

Cheers.

Thank you, Laurent.
I tried it and you are right that it increases the issue. In fact, that's why I often stopped into the past.

Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »
Anarcho,

How did it happen that you started hyper-ventilating? Is this just when you meditate or during regular activities. Are there any patterns to it? And - have you checked with a medical doctor there is not an underlying cause they can find?

Kindly,

Matthew

Hello Matthew.
I m almost sure it is due to the stress about my studies and future.
I have checked almost everything but all tell it is psychological.


Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2017, 05:39:22 PM »
I just stopped again.
It made it x 2.

Alex

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2017, 06:42:10 PM »
Do you think that Vipassana could help with observing the sensations into this area and letting go?

Dealing with anxiety and stress usually requires more than focussing on symptoms/sensations in order to let go. Relaxation exercises can help in this area, but they don't take away causes.

Observing body, feelings, as well as thought will help you see for yourself how anxiety and stress unfold.

It starts when there is contact with a stimulus which is interpreted as threatening. Not only physically threatening, but also threatening to wellbeing, status, etc. The stimulus could be external (something you see, read or hear) or it could be internal (a though, maybe repetitive one). The rest is the automatic nervous system:

When something is perceived as threatening, this automatically triggers a stress response. This is a usefull reaction which prepares the body to fight or flight and enabled our ancesters to survive. The stress respons involves physical changes that mobilize energy, like hyperventilation and tightness in muscles, but also elevated heartrate, weird feelings in digistive system, attention narrowing (on the stressor), etc.

This stress response isn't so usefull in this moidern world, especially as most of our modern day human problems are more complex and require more long-term investment than the kind of problems our ancesters faced (like a snake, or some kind of predator). But nevertheless it's there.

Try to understand how the anxiety unfolds. Like, what is starting point? What kind of thoughts. Etc. Vipassana will develop the ability to look more closely.

Kindly
Alex



Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2017, 07:13:13 PM »
Do you think that Vipassana could help with observing the sensations into this area and letting go?

Dealing with anxiety and stress usually requires more than focussing on symptoms/sensations in order to let go. Relaxation exercises can help in this area, but they don't take away causes.

Observing body, feelings, as well as thought will help you see for yourself how anxiety and stress unfold.

It starts when there is contact with a stimulus which is interpreted as threatening. Not only physically threatening, but also threatening to wellbeing, status, etc. The stimulus could be external (something you see, read or hear) or it could be internal (a though, maybe repetitive one). The rest is the automatic nervous system:

When something is perceived as threatening, this automatically triggers a stress response. This is a usefull reaction which prepares the body to fight or flight and enabled our ancesters to survive. The stress respons involves physical changes that mobilize energy, like hyperventilation and tightness in muscles, but also elevated heartrate, weird feelings in digistive system, attention narrowing (on the stressor), etc.

This stress response isn't so usefull in this moidern world, especially as most of our modern day human problems are more complex and require more long-term investment than the kind of problems our ancesters faced (like a snake, or some kind of predator). But nevertheless it's there.

Try to understand how the anxiety unfolds. Like, what is starting point? What kind of thoughts. Etc. Vipassana will develop the ability to look more closely.

Kindly
Alex

Thank you, Alex.
You are probably right. Observing the body reactions probably won't change the thoughts at their origin.

Alex

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 09:31:06 AM »
Well, the body reactions might be a starting point (as in, it might be the object of your meditation, even though I personally wouldn’t recommend that), but my invitation is to also notice what happens in your mind while you're trying to observe the body reactions.
How is the mind perceiving the bodily reactions? Is the mind trying to do something or just observing? Is there craving, aversion, delusion? There is a lot to notice.

When you notice these things and investigate further you will get closer to the root of the problem.

It takes time. Don't be afraid to get some help. Another person can be very valuable to help broaden/shift our perspective.

Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 03:12:59 PM »
Thank you Alex.
I can notice an extreme aversion. But it's difficult to do otherwise as I miss of breath.
I thought I was super anxious, but even under 10 mg of Benzo and 20 mg of AD, absolutely nothing changed with this hyperventilation.

No problem if nobody answers. I m conscious I m not really on the right forum for this.

Laurent

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 04:29:14 PM »
You should try to observe body, at a global range, widely, in order to calm body and mind, using observation as a tool to calm body and mind, not really to observe anything, but using observation only as a tool to calm body and mind, like a soothing cloud of kind consciousness around the body.
See if this works  :)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 04:33:52 PM by Laurent »
Ideologies are either a mistake or a hoax!

Alex

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 03:55:12 PM »
I can notice an extreme aversion.

See if you can make awareness more open, more kind and include the aversion. Can this meditation be good enough just as it is? Yes, the sensations are unpleasant. Yes, the aversion is unpleasant. But can it be good enough? See if you can make the quality of your attention more kind, more welcoming. Maybe you can start by creating a tiny little room in your field of awareness for the unpleasantness, for the aversion? Just let it be there. See what happens. No expectations. Just trying to open up a little.

But it's difficult to do otherwise as I miss of breath.

What do you mean by this?

No problem if nobody answers. I m conscious I m not really on the right forum for this.

You can take meditative or psychological/psychotherapeutic approach to liberation. They are different, but they have much common ground and they complement each other well. In any case, don't be afraid to report what you encounter in your meditation. It's important to work work/engage with that with mindfulness instead of trying to reach some future place.

Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 05:52:14 PM »
Thank you guys. I tried to observe it more gently, more kindly. But I have the feeling the most I m focusing on it, the most it makes it strong. Maybe I do it wrong. Anyway, I will try to avoid it for a while.

About your question Alex, it's like if I was missing of air. I m forcing all the day on my throat to try to find some.
Sorry for my english ^^

Laurent

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2017, 07:21:05 PM »
Tell us what happens in the next days.

Good luck  ;)
Ideologies are either a mistake or a hoax!

Alex

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 09:53:02 AM »
Sorry for my english ^^

No worries. We understand each other  ;)

I tried to observe it more gently, more kindly. But I have the feeling the most I m focusing on it, the most it makes it strong. Maybe I do it wrong.

If you feel you're focussing too much, then simply soften or broaden your awareness a little more. Find a good balance.

Aversion is one of the five hindrances. When one of those is present, it is very difficult to calm or concentrate the mind and you can't force this.
When you discover skilful ways of engaging with the aversion, you will experience the ending of aversion. This will be only temporary and very short at first. But it's important to notice that, as it will give you the confidence that you're on the right track. Your mind will then calm and concentrate in a natural way.

Maybe you can watch or listen to some dhamma talk by a teacher you like about 'working with hindrances/aversion' to get inspired. It helps a lot.

Keep up the diligent work!

Kindly
Alex
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:20:52 AM by Alex »

Matthew

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 09:37:32 AM »
Hi Anarcho,

Alex and Laurent have given you some good advice. I can only add that meditation practice with attention focussed gently yet firmly on the breath, relaxed as you breathe in and relaxed as you breathe out, will reduce your overall stress levels and give you space to see what else is going on.

From what you said:

I m almost sure it is due to the stress about my studies and future.
I have checked almost everything but all tell it is psychological.

It would seem that your mind is probably working overtime. Stress about your future is not a good way to help you towards a good future - at least, not in excess, as you are now.

Meditating on the breath can bring you more into the present moment, teach your mind to let go of thinking - and eventually tame the mind into being your servant and not your master. Results can come quite quickly with regard to being in the present moment and quieting the busy mind - yet these things are best not forced.

It is repeatedly sitting on the cushion and breathing in and out, mindful of the sensations created in the body, calming the body with each in and out breath, and - without self-criticism - not engaging when thought arises, that will lead you to these first fruits of meditative practice.

Thoughts will arise when you first start practice (usually a lot). It's nothing to beat yourself up about. Just notice and return attention to the sensations in the body that arise from the process of breathing. It's like learning to ride a bicycle: the only way to do so  is to fall off a lot.

Keep up the practice and your mind will start to unwind from it's tight and stressed state as you pay attention to the body as you breathe. This sends a strong neurological signal to the brain that "It's all OK" ... and the brain will follow the body into relaxation. There forms a gap where, once you have established a modicum of calm and concentration, other things can be investigated.

Kindly,

Matthew
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 09:39:23 AM by Matthew »
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Anarcho

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Re: Sort of hyperventilation
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 04:10:16 PM »
Thank you to all of you for the kindness.
I try to calm body and mind without focusing on the breath.