Self confidence v.s. Ego

[dobe]

It seems that our ego is all bad, and Enlightenment is the complete evaporation of it.  All my life I've felt like I've been one of the smarter and more capable ones.  I realize this is my ego on steroids and it needs to go.  Its an immature view.  But even still, I love myself so much, I think I'm awesome!  But I'm slowly seeing the benefits of killing my ego. 

I guess my specific question for now is the idea of self confidence, and how it relates to ego.  It seems to me that we need our ego to feel self confident.  But Buddhism supports self confidence does it not?  someone shed some light on my clouded head.

regards,
one of the newer members,

Dobe

[soma]

Hello dobe !

If you really were self confident you would not have the need to 'feel self confidence', right ?

This need comes from fear and insecurity and the EGO provides you with a defence against that but does not take away the fear, just cover it up.
Buddhism supports the uprooting of fear and therefore also the need to feel self confident.

Someone (can't remember who) recently posted a link to an e-book (' DUCK Fear') here in the forums and it adresses this question of yours.
Maybe someone can provide the link here or point to it.

All the best

[mik1e]

Hi Dobe,

Every fear is the fear about yourself. So, when you kill your ego, you kill the the subject of all fears, and they disappear automatically, including the fear of making mistakes. This does not lead to self-confidence, but just to absence of hesitations and uncertainty. The difference between these two states (presence of self-confidence and absence of hesitations and uncertainty) is slight enough, but very principal: first is based on ego (self), and the second is not.

Another principal difference is that self-confidence is based mainly on previous experience, while ego-free absence of hesitations is based on seeing -- you just look into Infinity and do (or trust) what you see. And the information, coming from Infinity in many cases is related to unpredictable future. Fears (especially the fear of mistakes) and "thick" ego block this kind of seeing.

The books soma refers to are good, but the principles illustrated in them can be formulated very shortly:

1) The ten dirty secrets of getting enlightened: Don't be a fool! If you are a fool, no one teacher and no one book can help you. When you have got rid of your foolishness, you can teach yourself from anybody (including animals and insects) and any text (or see, what text worth reading and what is not).

2) DUCK fears: Kill your ego! This principle I just have explained earlier.

3) The 30 Second Meditation: Live in meditation! Meditation is the certain state of mind and body. If you enter this state only for half an hour (or even for couple hours) a day, it is too little to really change your life: all the rest of the time you spend in quite different state, and it will dominate. It is just simple arithmetics. But when you are in the state permanently, then it is easy to find 30 seconds and go into the deep enough level of the state to keep it intensive enough.

[dobe]

so really what I should be after is not self confidence, but eradication of all fears that would make me feel unconfident.  well, being unconfident at times isnt always bad... like if im standing over a cliff thinking i can jump off and fly like a bird.  I want to feel unconfident there!  I guess it all goes back to seeing your situation as clearly as possible, and there is no need to feel self confidence to do something, just clearly know there is nothing to fear?

I dunno, this whole letting go of ego completely is probably the hardest thing about all of this.  It just seems like ego can be good in so many situations O_o... I need a better, more comprehensive, understanding of the ego I think.  Or do I just need more cushion time?  It seems I need better knowledge to know when to spot ego in all its camouflage.  Ego seems to be so closely nit to everything.

Any good texts/videos/whatever on Ego?

[unlikelybdst]

well, being unconfident at times isnt always bad... like if im standing over a cliff thinking i can jump off and fly like a bird.  I want to feel unconfident there!  I guess it all goes back to seeing your situation as clearly as possible, and there is no need to feel self confidence to do something, just clearly know there is nothing to fear?

I'm not sure if "feeling unconfident" is what you need to prevent you from jumping off a cliff because you think you can fly. What might work better in that situation is unclouded understanding of reality, attaining of which is what the Buddhist path all about (if I understand it correctly).

On a humorous side, a couple of different trains of thought of a person in the aforementioned cliff situation: 

"I'm on the edge of a cliff" - "It is very far to the bottom" - "I will die if I jump" - "I will not jump" - <calmly steps backwards>

or

"OMFG, this cliff is sooo cool" - "Look at the scenery!" - "Look down there, are those ants?" - "Noooo, those are people" - "OH WOW, BOTTOM OF THIS THING IS SO FAR" - "F-k!!" - <can't think, gripped with fear, heart rate through the roof> - <stumbles backwards>

or

"OMFG, this cliff is soo cool" - "I shall try flying!!" - "But it is very high, I might die" - "Nah, don't worry, I can do it" - "I can do it" - "I can do it" - "I can do it" - "No, i can't....." - <steps back, unconfidently>

or

"OMFG, this cliff is soo cool" - "I shall try flying!!" - "I CAN DO IT!!!" - <jumps off, hits head on a rock, dies>

[Matthew]

...I guess my specific question for now is the idea of self confidence, and how it relates to ego.  It seems to me that we need our ego to feel self confident.  But Buddhism supports self confidence does it not?  someone shed some light on my clouded head.

Dobe,

Welcome.

Confidence in yourself is a great benefit on the path. You will face many obstacles. It will help you keep going if times get hard and will see you through delusion. As long as it is balanced by the humility of fully facing yourself it will lead to no harm.

Warm regards,

Matthew

[mik1e]

 

Absence of fears does not mean the absence of common sense You still have with yourself your rational reasoning and body's programs of self-protection. But having got rid of fears, you will not perceive these programs as absolute imperatives, but just as one more reason ("it is better not to jump, because I can die"), not related to fear. Or, if you have to jump (like Castaneda did), you will need some practical experience-based confidence, which is not self-confidence, but just some empirical fact. If you are free from ego, you will be able to consider such facts objectively enough.

So, as you can see, you need not to have ego to make rational deeds. Simply ego-free reasoning has another nature.

I have never seen any good book about getting rid of ego. But there are tons of texts convincing you in necessity of ego, some of them are written in very aggressive manner.

If you need the rule of thumb for controlling the ego-free state, I can suggest you the next one: no one your action should be controlled by your fear, laziness or stupidness.

I prefer not to talk about confidence in oneself, because it is very easy to mix "pure" ("correct") state with ego-protecting self-confidence. And almost everybody does this mistake. That's why I usually talk about another side of the "correct" state -- absence of hesitations and uncertainty. This side is much easier to understand and control and the probability to make mistake in this direction is much less.

[dobe]

Confidence in yourself is a great benefit on the path. You will face many obstacles. It will help you keep going if times get hard and will see you through delusion. As long as it is balanced by the humility of fully facing yourself it will lead to no harm.

I guess a little bit of ego is ok then?  just need to balance it out?  I'm having a hard time grasping fully the concept of ego I guess.  oh well, on a positive note... I hit 50minutes meditating today straight and didnt want to stop..but my obnoxious alarm doesnt stop ringing... I need a better beeper that just beeps once lol.

[dobe]

thanks mike, your response helps.

[Matthew]

Confidence in yourself is a great benefit on the path. You will face many obstacles. It will help you keep going if times get hard and will see you through delusion. As long as it is balanced by the humility of fully facing yourself it will lead to no harm.

  I guess a little bit of ego is ok then?  just need to balance it out?  I'm having a hard time grasping fully the concept of ego I guess.  oh well, on a positive note... I hit 50minutes meditating today straight and didnt want to stop..but my obnoxious alarm doesnt stop ringing... I need a better beeper that just beeps once lol.

You have to work with ego to start seeing ego.

Try these for timers: http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php/topic,812.msg6775.html#msg6775

Matthew

[dobe]

You have to work with ego to start seeing ego.

ya, ego seems to be holding hands with a lot of positive qualities.  I haven't even started insight meditation, so my guess is that it'll get easier to spot ego in action once I start Vipassana.

Try these for timers: http://www.vipassanaforum.net/forum/index.php/topic,812.msg6775.html#msg6775

I grabbed the 60minute one. I appreciate the link!