Meditation Position

[Purple]

Hi, all;

I've been having a bit of knee pain after my sitting practice lately.  It worries me as I've just begun school for massage therapy where my knees and back have to be strong.  It requires a lot of fluid bending at the knees in order to practice proper body mechanics. 

I've been sitting on a crescent shaped zafu for years.  It's never been particularly comfortable but it's been the best of the worst.  Does anyone know what the optimal sitting position/cushion is that doesn't strain the knees?  Obviously I know a chair would work but I'd like to be closer to the floor.

I've tried a seiza bench the last couple of sittings and it seems to alleviate the knee pain.  The longest I've sat on it was 30 minutes.  I'm wondering if I'll have knee problems with longer sits.

Anyone out there have any suggestions?  Any experience would be welcome.

Thanx.

Purple

[Andrew]

  Obviously I know a chair would work but I'd like to be closer to the floor.

Hey Purple, good to hear from you.

I know what you mean by 'closer to the floor', it just has the right feel to it doesn't it?

Pain is such an interesting topic once you get right into it, as so much of it is actually a certain type of mental tension that is locking up the body.

I have bought myself 700mm squares (is that about 2 1/2 ft? sound right) of  foam, one a type of memory foam , the other a firmer type tradition foam. I then cut them both in half and have been able to play around with the height of my seated position to find a reasonable level of comfort.

I would suggest getting some foam and increasing the height of your but off the ground, thus opening up the knees more and not compressing the calf against the inside of the knee so much (which should reduce the tension through the knee cap area)

The other thing to do is to really stretch the quadriceps out first and also the shins, to really reduce that tension coming over the front of the knees.

Once you have done everything you can, then investigate the pain itself, asking 'how much is physical and how much is mental?' This can lead to some interesting sessions. (Just did a 2 day retreat myself sitting up to 1 1/2 hours at a time and there was a lot of watching pain, which actually gave some cool insights.)

The other thing to try is walking meditation first. that was also a real eye opener on the weekend on just how the insights can come with that broad gentle samadhi of the body in motion..

metta

 

[The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!]

... chair.

I sit on chair, works fine. It doesn't look like "power-yogi-style", but it's good for the knees.
Reason for this is not the pain issue (since one has to go through this, too), but it is the danger of physical damage. It's the awareness in meditation that counts. The body posture is not so important. Forcing oneself into lotus while the knees are not able to cope with it is not adhitthana, it is an ego thing.

Enlightenment is not a question of being able to cross your legs in a certain way ... 

[Andrew]

Enlightenment is not a question of being able to cross your legs in a certain way ... 

Damn, I was nearly there too...

I should try chairs a bit more, I've never given them much of a chance.

[The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!]

I should try chairs a bit more, I've never given them much of a chance.

Being used to meditating on chairs makes every train- or busride an additional opportunity to sit.
Every day I took the train to work, half hour there, half hour back. That's one hour of meditation. 

(Now I started to go by bike, that's one hour of physical exercise per day which I need right now. But I miss my additional hour of meditation on the train. Strange: meditation while walking works, but not while cycling.)

[Andrew]

Cycling needs too much concentration not to get killed by traffic...and potholes, and poles, and little old ladies in those electric cart thingys.

[frepie]

Comfort is a relative notion and when you sit still for an hour, there is no such thing as a comfortable position, there are only postures that are less painful than others.
I love to be sitting on the floor.  Somehow, this gives a stable impression, the feeling of being grounded. But my left knee and hip joint get painful pretty quickly unless I make sure that

• My feet are lower than my buttocks
• My knees are higher than my buttocks.

So my setup is made of a zabuton, a zafu on another somewhat thick cushion. This allows to meet the first condition. I then raise my left knee with another cushion (in fact, it is a 10 lbs rice bag) to bring it higher than my buttocks. I also make sure that my thighs are not opened too widely i.e. that my knees are somewhat more in front of me than to my sides.

[The Marvellous Omannobazong!!!]

Comfort is a relative notion and when you sit still for an hour, there is no such thing as a comfortable position, there are only postures that are less painful than others.

Asana is used as a word for posture. But there's a special meaning of the word "asana": when you enter this asana-state for a certain posture, then keeping this position is like having a warm bath, no pain is involved any more. I never entered this state while sitting on the floor due to my knees, but I have been told it is easier to be achieved on the floor. Anyway, as soon as you reach this "asana"-state, the kind of posture (lotus or half-lotus or even chair ... or a rice bag) is not important for meditation as long as the spine is kept straight.